2020 Democratic Primaries

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Who would you vote for in the 2020 Democratic Primary?

Joe Biden
4
10%
Kamala Harris
4
10%
Bernie Sanders
7
18%
Elizabeth Warren
8
21%
Beto O'Rourke
4
10%
Andrew Yang
2
5%
Cory Booker
1
3%
Amy Klobuchar
2
5%
Jay Inslee
0
No votes
OTHER
7
18%
 
Total votes : 39

2020 Democratic Primaries

Postby Agnimandur » 13 Mar 2019, 00:10

Who would you vote for in the Democratic primaries for 2020? If you would vote for none of them, click none.

This is not a politics forum, so please keep things relatively civil. And if you live in a non-US country, feel free to vote anyway. The NSA is not watching.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primaries

Postby Minneapolitan » 10 Jun 2019, 06:34

As of right now, I'm supporting Elizabeth Warren. I see her as the most electable candidate despite my belief that Democrats need to stop running candidates from the East and West Coasts (and even then, she's born and raised in Oklahoma).

Everything I want to see our government do (or not do) rests on removing Trump. Nothing else matters. I'm not gonna base my support on who's the most "woke" on bathrooms, who has the best approach to reducing carbon emissions, or anything else trivial like that because it's all moot if Trump wins again. Because of the unprecedented nature of Trump, the Democratic base couldn't be any more rallied. "Who can rally the base?" doesn't matter. The 2020 election will absolutely be about winning swing-voters (as well as bringing in new voters) whereas 2016 was about Hillary Clinton utterly failing to rally the base. On the sole issue of electability, I see Warren as the winner.

First off, Warren used to be a Republican. Understanding the mindset of a fiscal conservative will help enormously in reaching out to the countless voters out there who are fiscally conservative but socially liberal. That block of voters still exists, by the way. And winning even half of them could be the difference in winning key swing states like Pennsylvania, Iowa, or even North Carolina.

Second, Warren will have an obvious advantage winning another key block of voters: WOMEN. Trump did well in 2016 with women primarily because Hillary Clinton, in addition to being a horrendous candidate, had all the baggage of Bill and Monica. But women were a crucial factor - if not the crucial factor - in the widespread Democratic victories of the 2018 midterm elections. This is a political momentum that the Democrats have in their favor, particularly in swing states. This is waaaay too valuable to risk on a guy like Biden and his...quirks.

Third, Warren is like Bernie but without being like Bernie. Some in his cult following opted not to vote for Hillary Clinton in November because she was so centrist. Should Sanders not be the nominee again for 2020, Warren is clearly far enough to the left to retain these Bernie die-hards. That will matter in places like Pennsylvania and Michigan. The label of "socialist" IS a huge problem. Despite Hillary Clinton being such a crappy candidate, she still won the primaries of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Iowa, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. Democrats can win these states in 2020 if they try hard enough. While there's no single reason why Bernie Sanders lost those particular primaries in 2016, it's reasonable to assume that the "socialist" label was an instant turnoff for enough voters. With Warren, we can have the progressive candidate we need without having "socialist" stamped across the forehead.

Fourth, Warren's identity has not been built primarily on social issues like other candidates. Strictly social issues are incredibly abrasive in so many of the places Trump gained in 2016. Perhaps this is an entirely different discussion, but people who live in urban blue bubbles have no idea what it's like in small-town America. Someone in Brooklyn or Seattle isn't going to understand how people think in Fort Dodge, Iowa, or Lima, Ohio. It's like night and day. Despite Mid-Americans advancing on social issues, those in urban centers are advancing exponentially faster. People in Mid-America are feeling alienated and frustrated from a world that's increasingly difficult to understand. Additionally, they're sick and tired of hearing about race, let alone being constantly told that they're racist. Trump was an answer to Mid-America's frustration like a pressure cooker explodes.

Instead of these alienating social issues, Warren has LONG been building her political identity on economic issues as well as improving problems within the government itself. Those are the populist issues that will attract swing-voters.

Finally, Warren has the balls to punch back at Trump while remaining the respectful figure people want in a president again. She also has the good fortune of making her "Native American heritage" gaff so early on that no one will care by November 2020 (and she gained valuable experience from it). She's quick on her toes and gets to the point. I don't see her spark in other candidates such as Castro, Gillibrand, Inslee, Harris, Klobuchar, or even Booker.

8-)
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primaries

Postby Adm.Vogel » 10 Jun 2019, 22:08

Whats up Mill City Homie!

Minneapolitan wrote:
Finally, Warren has the balls to punch back at Trump while remaining the respectful figure people want in a president again. She also has the good fortune of making her "Native American heritage" gaff so early on that no one will care by November 2020 (and she gained valuable experience from it). She's quick on her toes and gets to the point. I don't see her spark in other candidates such as Castro, Gillibrand, Inslee, Harris, Klobuchar, or even Booker.

8-)


A decent write up, but you lost me with this paragraph. Warren has tried to step in the ring with Trump several times, and come out looking foolish every time. If you think the "Pocahontas" thing is going away, well you dont know Trump very well. Also, her brandishing Fox news as racist state propaganda is going to lose a ton of swing voters and brand her an elitist. Which hits on your urban America is out of touch with rural America point.

Sadly, I see good points in all candidates (god what is there like 25 now?) but none of them is the complete package. The establishment is working overtime to make Biden the guy, which is going to end badly since that is what pissed the base off about Hilary. /shrug
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primaries

Postby Strategus » 10 Jun 2019, 22:13

I vote Sanders, as I love his fried chicken.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primaries

Postby Minneapolitan » 15 Jun 2019, 21:12

Nordeast MPLS, eh? 'Vogel' isn't Polish so you must be a hipster... :roll:

Adm.Vogel wrote:If you think the "Pocahontas" thing is going away, well you dont know Trump very well.


Trump will continue being a bully and it will backfire. At some point he'll cross a line and alienate one voter too many. His behavior towards Warren will earn her sympathy because she's a woman. The constant badgering and bullying will continue to rally women in all parts of the country because Warren will be perceived as a victim of harassment. It will be different from Hillary's situation too. She'd been a very polarizing, untrustworthy public figure for over twenty years and her baggage could fill a truck. Hillary was very easy to not like.

Elizabeth Warren is everything Hillary Clinton isn't. She's well known to liberals but not to the nation as a whole - so she's still kind of a fresh face, not a political dinosaur. What has she done to make herself untrustworthy? What baggage does she have? I really think being a strong woman will help enormously to defeat Trump in swing states. It's just important to recognize that Hillary Clinton can't be used to measure women in politics because she was so...abnormal.

Adm.Vogel wrote:...her brandishing Fox news as racist state propaganda is going to lose a ton of swing voters and brand her an elitist.


I agree completely. She'll have to change tactics. But this isn't unique to Warren - any candidate will have to change tactics. Bringing attention to the Fox News media crisis is a noble fight but it should never be a candidate's fight.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primaries

Postby Adm.Vogel » 17 Jun 2019, 17:44

Minneapolitan wrote:Nordeast MPLS, eh? 'Vogel' isn't Polish so you must be a hipster... :roll:

Not polish, but my family has lived in the NE/St Anthony area since the 50's. I'm more of a crypster at this point 8-)

Minneapolitan wrote:Trump will continue being a bully and it will backfire. At some point he'll cross a line and alienate one voter too many. His behavior towards Warren will earn her sympathy because she's a woman. The constant badgering and bullying will continue to rally women in all parts of the country because Warren will be perceived as a victim of harassment. It will be different from Hillary's situation too. She'd been a very polarizing, untrustworthy public figure for over twenty years and her baggage could fill a truck. Hillary was very easy to not like.


Im not so sure, I mean if the Access Hollywood thing didn't turn Trump off to women... Part of the appeal to Trump is that he is the anti-PC guy. He gets to say all the things assholes used to and get away with it. If you have to recognize Hillary's abnormality, you also have to respect Trump's. I wouldn't hold my breath on there being any line he can cross and lose support. His specialty is lowering the bar.

Minneapolitan wrote:Elizabeth Warren is everything Hillary Clinton isn't. She's well known to liberals but not to the nation as a whole - so she's still kind of a fresh face, not a political dinosaur. What has she done to make herself untrustworthy? What baggage does she have? I really think being a strong woman will help enormously to defeat Trump in swing states. It's just important to recognize that Hillary Clinton can't be used to measure women in politics because she was so...abnormal.


The claiming native ancestry thing has made her untrustworthy and will hound her through the entire campaign. Which is shitty, because Trump lies daily and is never held accountable. That and she will be branded a "far left socialist" undeservedly. I like Warren for all the reasons you state, I just think she could be torpedoed easily and wouldn't make a great candidate. Of course, as you said "right now" and we don't have much to go on since the debates haven't even started. There is a lot of race to go.

The big thing Biden has going for him is he is immune right now to media darling of the week. I will say this for uncle Joe, the guy can fall into a sewer and come out with a gold watch every time just like Trump. Twitter cant brand this guy a perv or misogynist or out of date, he has the Teflon effect that Trump has. Which is going to make any candidate have an uphill battle to take the nom. It's Biden's to loose right now.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primaries

Postby Fatmo » 19 Jul 2019, 00:00

Adm.Vogel wrote:Warren has tried to step in the ring with Trump several times, and come out looking foolish every time.


This is the case no matter who steps into the ring with him and tries to do that tango. Of course everyone comes out looking foolish from being in the ring with Trump. You can't descend to that level and not look like a fool. It's just more of a contrast for anyone other than trump to all of a sudden look like a fool for doing things at his level. This is because Trump is simply a fool by default, so he never looks any worse for continuing to be a fool. It's a strange line that anyone fighting him has to draw, and no one has really been able to do it. Maybe Pelosi has come closest? Trump won't allow you to dance with him at a high level, because he just can't, has no interest in it, and happens to have been able to take advantage of the current political climate in a way where he doesn't have to anymore. He makes sure things stay at the lowest possible common denominator at all times.

So basically, Trump is going to find ways of insulting or demeaning anyone he runs against. Maybe the point about Biden always seeming to come out of anything looking better has something to it. I forget who said that. But I'm just kind of meh on him as an actual candidate. If he's the nominee, damned if I won't be rooting for him though.

As of now I think I also like Warren best of the candidates that actually have a chance so far. Biden was awful in those first debates in my opinion. I remember hearing lots of people after the debates saying he did great, but when watching that one I certainly did not think that. I hate that he's just kind of the front runner by default, because as 2016 showed us, that's not the best way to select a nominee anymore. Actually let them go at it and give them all a chance to get into it with each other while taking this time to furiously vet them. I also think it's kind of interesting that now it seems like it's going to be the norm in elections from now on to have kind of a shitload of candidates debating each other earlier and earlier. I don't think the current debate format is very good though. You can't actually call it a "debate" if in a two hour session some candidates get to talk for half an hour and some MAYBE get like a minute and a half. Like, either split up the debates more so there's five each instead of ten each or cut the lower people out earlier. I'd prefer the former. But it's kind of an insult to candidates like Wang to bother showing up when they KNOW they won't get to get into it at all.

When are the CNN debates, and will they still have 20 people? Do they still have that crazy yoga teacher-looking lady who wants to vanquish Trump with love?

I live in California, and when Harris came up for election for senate, I did a lot of research about her and the other candidate and realized she was the better one. And I've really loved her as a senator. Similar to Warren, I just love the way she questions people and tries to call them on BS. I'm just not sure she's the best candidate for president yet, though yea she's still in the mix for lots of people.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primaries

Postby Minneapolitan » 20 Jul 2019, 23:07

Fatmo wrote:This is the case no matter who steps into the ring with him and tries to do that tango. Of course everyone comes out looking foolish from being in the ring with Trump. You can't descend to that level and not look like a fool.


Correct. Trump is a mudmonster. You can't sling mud at a mudmonster when it lives in mud. That's why Trump is so toxic to our democracy. Our American democracy - and possibly any democracy in history - has never had anything like this before. It's totally new, like an invasive species or incurable plague. How do you defeat a mudmonster in this media climate? How do we keep it from returning? Trump's brand of politics seems like a "Pandora's box" situation, kinda like gun control and the 2nd Amendment: There's no solution and it only gets worse.

Fatmo wrote:I don't think the current debate format is very good though. You can't actually call it a "debate" if in a two hour session some candidates get to talk for half an hour and some MAYBE get like a minute and a half.


If any one candidate wants to surge in the polls, here's what they do: During a live debate, live on CNN, NBC, or whoever else...with the whole world watching (which they do), say this:

"You Americans at home watching right now are watching one of the biggest problems with our nation. These "debates" [they use their fingers for air quotes] are a joke. They're an absolute joke. And everyone knows it. Maybe we wouldn't be shouting over each other if each candidate here tonight knew that we'd still be on the same subject five minutes from now. This isn't a "debate." This is an elementary panel discussion at best. The questions are terrible. The rules are ignored. We're not given enough time. This is just one big show fight, like when the puck drops and two hockey players immediately drop their sticks and gloves. Think I'm wrong? Why is there even an audience here tonight? We should be devoting each two-hour event to just one or two subjects - and the same goes for the general election debates. Those are a joke too. And 'Liberal media'?? This media has been doing a disservice to our nation's democracy and Donald Trump is a direct result of it. You've been undermining the intelligence of the American people and they deserve better."

(The camera returns to the moderators looking stunned - dumbfounded - and with their jaws on the floor...an awkward silence follows)

"Well, we...uh...um...[loosens necktie]...I mean...we...well..."

Just imagine this happening.

Poll surge.

:D
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primaries

Postby Fatmo » 21 Jul 2019, 06:06

Lol that would be pretty fantastic for one of those smaller candidates. Take the time for the one token question they get and just say that instead.

:D
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primaries

Postby Adm.Vogel » 24 Jul 2019, 22:47

It's true, the TV debates are antiquated and need to be dropped.
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