Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Telleo » 03 Dec 2019, 21:17

Fatmo wrote:I’m starting to maaaaaaybe townread Telleo. This makes things harder but more interesting.

One question for Telleo though. D2 you were saying me and UFO don’t really make sense as a scum team. Earlier today, you were entertaining theories from Blackswimmer about who’s scum if BS is town, and your main theory was me and UFO. Do you actually believe that’s reasonable now?

When I ISOd Telleo, I could see me being his biggest scum read for most of the game as reasonable given what he has focused on with obviously limited time.

However, there’s really not much on BS, but he is on record for a while saying he simply can’t shake the feeling and doesn’t like that he hasn’t been pushed much. Does this seem like town Telleo to people? Because honestly, I don’t have any real experience with town Telleo when I’m also town. But Telleo just seems maybe different here? I was able to correctly townread Telleo in a game I observed but didn’t play in.

Like maybe he’s getting the same feeling on BS that not enough people had on Chuck in Dr Who?

I’m still tiwnreading BS for the most part though and don’t want to kill him.

I think he and Kim may have decent points on ZZ.

Kier, didn’t you say you tonally didn’t like Nook before ZZ replaced him?

Who are you scumreading now?

I wish I had more time here. Fuck I still don’t know who I want to vote here.

PPP oh wow Kim and Telleo just voted Zoom. Will read that stuff now.


The stuff about you and UFO is... yeah. Weird. Basically, if you flip scum, I can force myself to find the world where UFO is your partner. I don't think it's likely, and I think independent of your alignment, UFO is likely town based on early D1. But, Blackswimmer asked, and in a world where BS flips town and you flip scum, I've gotta at least look at UFO. I would take that paragraph less to be "Blackswimmer asked who I think scum!Fatmo's teammate is and the answer is UFO" and more "Blackswimmer asked who I think scum!Fatmo's teammate is so I ran through some scenarios/options."
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 1

Postby kimpossible » 03 Dec 2019, 21:18

Keirador wrote:BUT all of that was in response to a different-though-potentially-related train of thought. I'm asking about the quality of the sjg lynch and the extent to which we're married to attendant townreads. Zoomzip is just one of apparently about five solid townreads that came from the sjg lynch. I know that that's too many townreads and I'm asking folks to go back and read the lynch because it was, in your words, "wishy washy." To which you replied "scum should have been able to argue against it better," and. . . where is that counterargument leading you? That scum definitely should have done that and just didn't, which would indicate an unpersuasive or inactive scum team? That scum leaned hard in the other direction, which would indicate a hard bus? That scum got "trapped" on a course of action somehow?

I don't have an answer for this. None of them currently seem more likely than the others, but my townreads lead me to believe one or more of them must be true. I just don't know the best way to sort it out, and I'm not sure that looking for an answer in sjg's lynch is actually the way to do it.
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Zoomzip » 03 Dec 2019, 21:25

So, I am kind of concerned that this vote is developing. But, meh. I mean, it's hard to say I was disinterested in the D2 vote given that I wrote the case on the vote winner and said I was not interested in voting Conq. But, honestly, I am not enjoying this game, and especially the way it is being played these days, so... it's not LYLO, and getting voted out gives me time to do thing I actually care about. Not sure what this means about the people voting me.... Telleo stroppiness on not adhering to plan feels so anti-town to the point where it must be town, and he pulled a solo vig on town Crunkus in push/pull and was town in that game, so... that seem promising on Telleo's part. I mean, Kim knows everything that's going on, so...given that I added this game in addition to what I was already doing, this is hella weird, but you all can sort that out. I might have been wrong on Kim's read, and I kind of hope I was since this is pretty disheartening a read. I'd much prefer that this is a sham lie that I fell for.

I probably shouldn't be playing this game, and there are no real subs left, so... yeah, this is affordable and should make for some delightful post-death reading.

ZoomZip, will see if I can fit in a roster run later. Probably not, there's another game later tonight that I am committed to. I think my death curse at the moment is UFO. Probably. He certainly fits the bill of the person wanting this vote but not actually doing real to be viewed responsible for it. Getting rid of me now I think subverts a F3/F5 type game he would want to play. Keir for the people not on the SJG D1 vote. That seems... probably right.
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Telleo » 03 Dec 2019, 21:37

Zoomzip wrote:So, I am kind of concerned that this vote is developing. But, meh. I mean, it's hard to say I was disinterested in the D2 vote given that I wrote the case on the vote winner and said I was not interested in voting Conq. But, honestly, I am not enjoying this game, and especially the way it is being played these days, so... it's not LYLO, and getting voted out gives me time to do thing I actually care about. Not sure what this means about the people voting me.... Telleo stroppiness on not adhering to plan feels so anti-town to the point where it must be town, and he pulled a solo vig on town Crunkus in push/pull and was town in that game, so... that seem promising on Telleo's part. I mean, Kim knows everything that's going on, so...given that I added this game in addition to what I was already doing, this is hella weird, but you all can sort that out. I might have been wrong on Kim's read, and I kind of hope I was since this is pretty disheartening a read. I'd much prefer that this is a sham lie that I fell for.

I probably shouldn't be playing this game, and there are no real subs left, so... yeah, this is affordable and should make for some delightful post-death reading.

ZoomZip, will see if I can fit in a roster run later. Probably not, there's another game later tonight that I am committed to. I think my death curse at the moment is UFO. Probably. He certainly fits the bill of the person wanting this vote but not actually doing real to be viewed responsible for it. Getting rid of me now I think subverts a F3/F5 type game he would want to play. Keir for the people not on the SJG D1 vote. That seems... probably right.


Not adhering to the plan is pro-town, and I'm kind of a little bit shocked that everyone seems to have just been like, "Oh well, guess Telleo's just doing his own thing NBD."

Like, where's the vitriol, y'all? Come yell at me so I can tell you you're wrong.

--

That said. This feels. Huh. My first reaction is "Wow that's an overreaction to only two votes, one of whom is by a very-unlikely-to-be-followed-Telleo." Death cursing and self-voting seem really premature. However, ZZ did sub in, and hints here that there's RL stuff behind the scenes. I... don't think ZZ does that as town? Especially not in a game where Sjg just died doing a meta-play as scum? Like... ugh. I don't wanna give this a TR. But. Also I kinda do?

Blackswimmer. You're up again. ZZ's not off the table, but I want him playing not suicidal.
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Zoomzip » 03 Dec 2019, 21:38

Keirador wrote:This was not a high-conviction lynch. ZZ and kim appear to have put the most thought into it, and part of ZZ's case--that sjg should have been making more sports-related insults--would have me screaming at ZZ if he hadn't been right.


Like, this is a nice bit of sleight of hand here... the most minor part of the issue, as stated at the time, was the lack of Spurs insults. The more significant things, as also stated, was the lack of some shock evaluation play... which you seem to acknowledge exists "Part of ZZ's case" is how you describe the sports bit but without the context or the weighting at the time.
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Telleo » 03 Dec 2019, 21:39

Side note, in the voting quicktopic I'm disappointed that we didn't refer to days as "Rounds" because I wanted to be able to cast my R2-V2 ballot.
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Zoomzip » 03 Dec 2019, 21:40

Telleo wrote:Not adhering to the plan is pro-town, and I'm kind of a little bit shocked that everyone seems to have just been like, "Oh well, guess Telleo's just doing his own thing NBD."

Like, where's the vitriol, y'all? Come yell at me so I can tell you you're wrong.


Regardless of your alignment, would yelling at you change anything?
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Zoomzip » 03 Dec 2019, 21:42

Should they stay or should they go now?
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Keirador » 03 Dec 2019, 21:43

Alright, since we're spilling ink here, I'll give out my own thoughts here.

I think quietly staying off a lynch you know will flip scum is about the most passive way to scum. It's so passive that Telleo and shadow either don't do it intentionally (and if it's unintentional it's probably NAI), or they do it specifically so that eventually someone will come around and make the argument that it's too passive for their scumstyles. And sure, down that way lies some madness and some potential for absolute truth, so for now, let me just say: null on Telleo for not being present. I agree Telleo is liable to lurking, but the extent to which that involves sleeping through a scumbuddy's wishy washy lynch. . . null for now.

So if that means I can't just townread every sjg-voter, hows about I townread none of them. Since the mechanical angle was all town-positive (killing a scum is mechanically good for town), I am headed to Narrativeland, where we make up stories about why scum do town-positive things. I see two major narratives for scum doing town-positive things: power-wolfing for the towncredit to muscle through the rest of the game at a numerical disadvantage going into D2, or a whoopsie was made. These narrative paths point me to a pretty discrete group of targets.

The power-wolfing narrative would have to be the hammers. Kim says ZZ was "the hammer," but from my reading kim actually fills that role pretty well, too. The two votes are from people who are serious about their vote, widely townread, and they come within what, seven minutes of each other? I'm not sure sjg goes down without both those votes, and if anything I think I find Kim's the more deadly of the two as it's reinforcing an existing wagon. That's not to say I find kim the more suspicious hammer, just the more efficacious. "Who's more likely to hammer a scum" matters as much or more than "which vote was hammeriest," and on that. . . is my perception of kim being not quite so ruthless a scumchum a stale one? It's been a year.

If a scum on sjg was of the "whoopsie" variety, I really have to think UFO. He was first, for an OMGUS reason, pretty long before sjg was in serious danger, and once we reached the danger zone (LANA!) he found reason to get off that vote twice.

Interestingly, these two narratives are not mutually exclusive choices.


PPE: Holy posts batman! For reference, I started writing this after kim voted ZZ. Man, it's quiet all evening and all morning, and then boffo, off to the races. Might not get much catching up done after all.
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Zoomzip » 03 Dec 2019, 21:48

Keir also throwing shade at UFO now... hmmmmmm... Well, shit, that complicates my binary death curse feelings.
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