Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 1

Postby Keirador » 03 Dec 2019, 18:41

kimpossible wrote:
Keirador wrote:That's especially imperative if that's what we're going to spend the rest of the day on anyway. If today's vote comes down to what happened on the EOD1 SJG lynch, go back and read it.

So it seems like the counter argument to this is that with a kinda wishy washy lynch, scum should have been able to argue against it better?


This seems like a slightly re-phrased version of "if sjg is scum, where are his buddies, then?" I'm not sure what valence it has given what we know to be true. Are you arguing that it wasn't a kinda wishy washy lynch? And if that is what you're arguing, did you re-read it?
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Keirador » 03 Dec 2019, 18:43

Blackswimmer wrote:
Zoomzip wrote:Problem is it depends on what the nature of our targetting is doing.

If our action is a killing action, then we need to limit its potential scope. If our action is an IR action, then we would want to broaden the scope. Unless the stipulation is that you have to target someone that someone else has targeted as well, and only singletons die. In which case we need to go back to a limited scope.

I don't know whether to aim broad or small.

OK, logic tree:

If you can choose to take no action and if so, no kills result, then take no action.

If you must take action....
... then determine whether the action would be better to be scatter based or targetted on a select few.

"Scatter based"= If multiple people select the same target they all die.
"Targetted based"= If people don't agree on a target then the ones alone die.

If the action should be scatter based...
...and it is a protective action, target the person below you in the roster.
...and it is an IR action, target the person below you in the roster.
...and it is a killing action... then what the fuck?

If the action is targetted based...
...and it is a protective action, target Kim
...and it is an IR Action, target someone off the SJG vote
...and it is a killing action, target someone off the SJG Vote.


Does that work?

I'm good with this, but I dislike the "someone off the SJG vote". Why not pick someone specific? I nominate Telleo, or Keir if Telleo's lynched.


I took ZZ to mean "whichever of Telleo or Keir is still alive, because we're definitely lynching one of them today." Doesn't feel me with inspiration to finish these last 50 pages, but certainly specific enough.
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 1

Postby Keirador » 03 Dec 2019, 18:58

Blackswimmer wrote:
kimpossible wrote:
Keirador wrote:That's especially imperative if that's what we're going to spend the rest of the day on anyway. If today's vote comes down to what happened on the EOD1 SJG lynch, go back and read it.

So it seems like the counter argument to this is that with a kinda wishy washy lynch, scum should have been able to argue against it better?

+1 on this. The fact that for many it was an "eh, best we've got" kinda lynch makes it look a lot less like a bus.

Is that a +1? Your characterization of "eh, best we've got" makes me think you agree with me it was a wishy washy lynch. Kim said with a wishy washy lynch, "scum should have been able to argue against it better." But what conclusion does that lead to? Are you reading Telleo or shadow as having done their utmost to argue against it?
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 1

Postby Blackswimmer » 03 Dec 2019, 19:24

Keirador wrote:
Blackswimmer wrote:
kimpossible wrote:So it seems like the counter argument to this is that with a kinda wishy washy lynch, scum should have been able to argue against it better?

+1 on this. The fact that for many it was an "eh, best we've got" kinda lynch makes it look a lot less like a bus.

Is that a +1? Your characterization of "eh, best we've got" makes me think you agree with me it was a wishy washy lynch. Kim said with a wishy washy lynch, "scum should have been able to argue against it better." But what conclusion does that lead to? Are you reading Telleo or shadow as having done their utmost to argue against it?

Oh, right. Yay for reading too quickly on lunch break.
Ummm, that's actually a valid point. Telleo was MIA for pretty much all of D1, to the extent of not even getting a vote down, which I have to take as NAI, but means he wasn't around to push a counter-wagon. Shadow... kinda did try and push a counterlynch, but also did jump off the UFO wagon which was the best anti-sjg wagon. And why do that and not bus Sjg?

CRAP! This was all so neat, and now it's not.

Still think Telleo's probably the lynch today, as I really don't believe there's 2 scum among Kim/ZZ/UFO/Fatmo, but damn, there might actually be one.

Aaaand, now I'm going out for dinner. Will try and get back in thread at some point before EoD, but not likely to have much time or focus.
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 1

Postby kimpossible » 03 Dec 2019, 19:40

Keirador wrote:
kimpossible wrote:
Keirador wrote:That's especially imperative if that's what we're going to spend the rest of the day on anyway. If today's vote comes down to what happened on the EOD1 SJG lynch, go back and read it.

So it seems like the counter argument to this is that with a kinda wishy washy lynch, scum should have been able to argue against it better?


This seems like a slightly re-phrased version of "if sjg is scum, where are his buddies, then?" I'm not sure what valence it has given what we know to be true. Are you arguing that it wasn't a kinda wishy washy lynch? And if that is what you're arguing, did you re-read it?

No, that's definitely not what I'm arguing. It was wishy-washy.

Look, here is my problem right now: if I'm going strictly by D2 onward, I think Zoomzip could be scum. He didn't seem to particularly care which of the three townies who were on the docket D2 actually died. He has been very accepting of this "Eh, let's just lynch everyone left who didn't vote sjg" and even seems kinda incredulous that I want to question that. He's barely been here, which from a meta perspective is how I saw him play the last time he was scum: he doesn't like having to lie and be the bad guy, so he avoids the thread. And his response to me saying "What if we ignore D1?" was to point out that D2 was a town/town/town race without any actual attempt at analysis -- how is that townZip??? It doesn't make sense!

But he hammered sjg. Why? You agree his D1 looks townie. Do I need to believe A) he decided to play the first day without reading his role PM, or B) he decided to just go ahead and bus a teammate for big towncred and try to ride out the game that way? I mean, maybe that's why sjg seemed so irate at the end... especially if ZZ didn't communicate his intentions.

And I haven't voted there yet because this is not an easy thing to contemplate. I don't want to be right, but I do, but I don't. Y'know?
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby kimpossible » 03 Dec 2019, 21:01

Welp. Now I've said it, I guess I may as well move on it. If I'm right, I think I could bust the game open. If I'm wrong, I'll eat a lot of crow.

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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Telleo » 03 Dec 2019, 21:05

Blackswimmer wrote:
Telleo wrote:
Zoomzip wrote:Strong dislike.

"There's no reason to NOT lynched SF/K" is a terrible reason to lynch SF/K. If for no other reason than the POE that leads to that slot also leads to me, and Keir's a fresh perspective on the game that regardless of alignment will be useful to the town to allow to catch up. If that's all this is, vote me instead.

Are you seriously saying that you'd prefer to see yourself lynched than Keir?


No, I'm saying that this is a dumb reason to lynch either of us but it's slightly less dumb to lynch me. I'm also arguing that it's actively scummy to pick Keir over me in this particular situation.

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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 1

Postby Keirador » 03 Dec 2019, 21:05

OK Kim, I might still be misunderstandifying you, but to me your last post alluded to two points that might be connected, but aren't necessarily. You're mostly fleshing out some negative feelings on Zoomzip that are coming, from what I can tell, from tracts of the thread I haven't read yet (I've read 1 - 105 and 153 - on). I'm in the beginning of Day 2 where ZZ is doing some work corralling night mechanics/strategy/implications. As I proceed, I will keep an eye out for the disinterest you speak of.

BUT all of that was in response to a different-though-potentially-related train of thought. I'm asking about the quality of the sjg lynch and the extent to which we're married to attendant townreads. Zoomzip is just one of apparently about five solid townreads that came from the sjg lynch. I know that that's too many townreads and I'm asking folks to go back and read the lynch because it was, in your words, "wishy washy." To which you replied "scum should have been able to argue against it better," and. . . where is that counterargument leading you? That scum definitely should have done that and just didn't, which would indicate an unpersuasive or inactive scum team? That scum leaned hard in the other direction, which would indicate a hard bus? That scum got "trapped" on a course of action somehow?

Reading the thread, I don't think shadow fits any of those scenarios. Nearest I could get would be malaise or laziness, given she subbed out a few days (right?) later: she should've either fought or bused, and instead let herself just sink into the worst place for scum to be on a lynch she knew would flip scum due to poor play.

Leaving my own slot out of it at all, at a minimum I would insist that if we're going to be basing today's lynch predominantly (exclusively?) on sjg's lynch, the players doing that owe the town and themselves a re-read of that lynch. Because by the way it is being discussed today, I was frankly shocked to read how it actually went down.

Alright, almost exactly 48 hours since I came into the thread, and 48 pages left to read.

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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Telleo » 03 Dec 2019, 21:09

kimpossible wrote:Welp. Now I've said it, I guess I may as well move on it. If I'm right, I think I could bust the game open. If I'm wrong, I'll eat a lot of crow.

Zoomzip


Zoomzip

I can get behind this.
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Re: Lights Out Mafia Game Thread: Day 3

Postby Fatmo » 03 Dec 2019, 21:11

I’m starting to maaaaaaybe townread Telleo. This makes things harder but more interesting.

One question for Telleo though. D2 you were saying me and UFO don’t really make sense as a scum team. Earlier today, you were entertaining theories from Blackswimmer about who’s scum if BS is town, and your main theory was me and UFO. Do you actually believe that’s reasonable now?

When I ISOd Telleo, I could see me being his biggest scum read for most of the game as reasonable given what he has focused on with obviously limited time.

However, there’s really not much on BS, but he is on record for a while saying he simply can’t shake the feeling and doesn’t like that he hasn’t been pushed much. Does this seem like town Telleo to people? Because honestly, I don’t have any real experience with town Telleo when I’m also town. But Telleo just seems maybe different here? I was able to correctly townread Telleo in a game I observed but didn’t play in.

Like maybe he’s getting the same feeling on BS that not enough people had on Chuck in Dr Who?

I’m still tiwnreading BS for the most part though and don’t want to kill him.

I think he and Kim may have decent points on ZZ.

Kier, didn’t you say you tonally didn’t like Nook before ZZ replaced him?

Who are you scumreading now?

I wish I had more time here. Fuck I still don’t know who I want to vote here.

PPP oh wow Kim and Telleo just voted Zoom. Will read that stuff now.
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