A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Fatmo » 03 Jul 2019, 06:21

Conq wrote:But, like, do you still think Day 1 doesn’t matter?

Maybe you should ask for a sub until Day 2? If you’re not trying very hard to find scum on Day 1, you’re a pretty serious liability.


I mean, obviously he does think that. He's just said it here.

Not only has he said it here at the start of this game, but I have now seen him say that as town in one game (I think it was Dr Who) and as scum in that super heroes game I observed.

So I don't necessarily see this as AI for him anymore. At least not him having that POV. I had him as a huge scumread in Dr. Who, and that was one of the reasons I did so. I just couldn't understand that POV. I still don't, but I do understand that he legitimately thinks this at least to some degree.

nanooktheeskimo wrote:No D1 reveals please


Can you envision a scenario where revealing if you have a certain power activated might be good for the town to know?

Conq wrote:This is a super scum-sided set-up, I think. We have no investigative roles and I don’t think we have any way to make a clear unless somebody avoids a Night Kill with the Agility power.


Well we have the Perception thing. That has a chance to determine a single ability of a random player. But yea, no alignment cop.

Actually, I had a question regarding if someone decided they wanted to choose either Intelligence or Charisma. Both influence votes. But I was thinking that perhaps someone choosing charisma might be more indicative of scum than choosing intelligence? Because while intelligence gives you a double vote, charisma kind of takes away choice from someone else. I don't know why, but that feels more wrong to me, since mathematically, the person you take a vote away from is more likely to be town than scum. Can anyone think of a reason town would choose charisma over intelligence if they want their vote to count for more? Maybe if you feel so confident in your ability to make reads that you feel that having a chance to control another random person's vote is likely to lead to a better overall vote? Like, did anyone think in great detail about how they would want to use abilities as town and think of a reason that charisma gives a higher chance of having a town positive effect than intelligence? If so, can you explain it?
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Durga » 03 Jul 2019, 06:33

Charmisa is fun because you can take away the vote of someone you think is wasting their vote or is scum. It's NAI imo
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Nanook » 03 Jul 2019, 06:37

Don’t think charisma lets you choose which vote you control.

Will have an answer later fatmo but short version is that only someone with endurance should claim today and even then only if they’re about to be TKed at EOD.
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Fatmo » 03 Jul 2019, 07:03

nanooktheeskimo wrote:Don’t think charisma lets you choose which vote you control.


Yea, it's random.
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Aeschines » 03 Jul 2019, 14:07

How about this @Nook and @Conq... You both shut up about whether D1 is valid and do some scum hunting. Maybe no has has ever showed me what sensible, logic-driven scum hunting is on D1? So far, the discussion over powers seems mildly useful, but I'm not seeing much else that warrants actual discussion.

Should I throw out questions arbitrarily? That's what I would do in person to create a record and pass the time until D2. I'm not trying to be snarky, I really do what to figure out what you think of as "good" D1 play.

Personally, I think that Charisma as a power is indicative of scum. Since you don't get to pick who's votes you control (you're wrong Durga, by my reading of the rules) it's really most useful if you know you'll be voting against the stream -> because you're scum.

I also think strength is a good sign of scumminess. NKs favor scum and the kind of townie who tries to insist on getting themselves a vig-kill is either A) super annoying or B) Doesnt exist (much more likely).

I tend to think that agility is a near town-clear, it is essentially valueless to the scum but very important to the town. Unless it's part of some deep plot, my gut would say agility = town.

Similarly, I think perception is town-oriented. It has more value than AGI for scum, since they can try to identify and people who have AGI, but overall it just seems much more useful as town.

INT and LUK seem like opposites for me, but both could play to the town or the scum. INT seems like a cautious-players choice to ensure everyone has to listen to them. Could be scum trying to bulk up their voting, so I think INT = NAI. LUK I think is mildly towny. It says to me you like to gamble and either you're not taking the game seriously or you just want to explore the mechanics. Those seem like town perspectives, since the scum are less likely to be playful/random in their power choice.
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby kimpossible » 03 Jul 2019, 15:01

Alright, much as it pains me because I disagree with his premise, I don't think Aesch is a liability as town. I think he actually spends his time looking for good reasons for a D1 lynch, because I've seen him do it Or... actually, more accurately, I think he looks for good reasons not to lynch people and narrows his pool accordingly which is maybe not so different from how I hunt. He just words his attitude about it in a way that rubs most of us the wrong way.

So if he's agreed to shut up about his opinion... let's just have a D1 here. It keeps that distraction out of the thread, and I'm inclined to give him town points for seeing that and trying to head him off.

Agree on no reveals, and let's also not discuss "Which role should do what if they even have their power" because as we learned from Superheroes, it can and really does lead to us unintentionally dropping hints. So just leave it.

Which now brings me to have to ask Aeschines, after just having awarded him some townie points above: what value do you see in talking about the towniness or scumminess of people's power choices, given that we pretty much never do D1 reveals? Hell, even if we did reveal, do you think scum would actually tell us they picked Charisma? Especially now that you've laid out your thoughts on which powers are indicative either way?
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby kimpossible » 03 Jul 2019, 15:06

* trying to head that off.

Just to further add to that thought, I feel like he might be more inclined to continue the argument if he's scum because it would be something to do. Like, the "What do I do?" question feels (sorry Aesch, I know you hate this touchy-feely approach, but it's the method that leads me to good reads more often than not) like town genuinely floundering because his approach to the game doesn't help the town, but he doesn't know how else to do it.
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby kimpossible » 03 Jul 2019, 15:14

Oh, further note. I'll be around plenty today and Friday, but likely not much tomorrow. We're going to a 4th of July barbecue and lake swim, where I plan to spend lots of time floating and leaving my phone ashore since I just got that replacement for the one I drowned and I'm not that stupid that I'd take it out on the water. Especially since I have a marked propensity for dropping it for no apparent reason.
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Aeschines » 03 Jul 2019, 15:28

Well, I appreciate the brownie points! I'm still going to be incredulous about results derived from touches & feels, but I'll try to just bring some skepticism in as a flavoring, rather than a screw-you-all-you're-doing-it-wrong.

My discussion of the powers, which I would like to get other's input on is intended to do the following:
1) Help a town preceptor know whether it makes sense to reveal a particular result, if they get one. If we have a consensus about what powers are town-clear/lean and scum-confirm/lean, then we can hopefully start D2 off with more town information & results from any investigation.
2) I don't think power reveals really helps the scum, so I think a discussion of powers, which does help the town, is worth it since the worst-case scenario is people dropping breadcrumbs on largely neutral information. Unlike superhero mafia, the scum derive a pretty minimal benefit from knowing each of our powers. Since they only trigger like 1/5 times, even if they knew that I was X or Y, 4/5 of the time I'm just a townie and they already know that. Actually, I think a full reveal would be town beneficial, since it would let us pinpoint who picked scummier powers - but that's not actually a good idea, since the scum would just lie about what they have.
3) To get people to talk about something, so later we can hold them accountable to positions they take today.
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby sjg11 » 03 Jul 2019, 17:42

Ok gang, a few things:
1. We should stop discussing which abilities scum would pick and why for the moment. It could lead to hints about what roles we have and the discussion only becomes useful and relevant if we decide to start revealing roles so we should probably table that discussion until then.
2. We should not be revealing today. I am going to reveal one thing though. I thought Night 0 started when Day 1 started so missed the deadline for submitting roles. Sadly the reminder was sent at like midnight here so I didn't catch it until the next morning by which time the game had started. This means that my abilities were selected randomly. I'm not going to go into detail about what my abilities actually are but I've decided that me revealing this when we reveal roles is asking for too much of a leap of faith from you guys and we don't have many mislynches here so I kinda need to reveal this here so we can decide whether it's gonna be a lynchable issue or not here.
3. Early reads. Largely null. I agree with kim that I like Aes raising that he feels uncomfortable with scumhunting on Day One and then dismissing it rather than getting sucked into it. I also like kim pointing that out. Most negative player so far is Durga for asking whether we could post and then... not actually doing any particularly useful or insightful posting. Nook's also been floating around without making any massively useful contributions.

Durga for the moment with the normal early game vote disclaimer. Very small read at this point but enough for an early game vote.
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