Christmas Time Is Here Again (Scum Win)

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Re: Christmas Time Is Here Again (Day 4)

Postby Myloninja13 » 05 Jan 2019, 16:17

Heyo, I'm back again!
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Re: Christmas Time Is Here Again (Day 4)

Postby Myloninja13 » 05 Jan 2019, 16:22

kimpossible wrote:I have just no idea what to make of this. It was not a great scum trap, but I can't tell if it's "bad scum trap earnestly made" or "bad attempt to seem townie."


You decide ultimately here, really your choice.
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Re: Christmas Time Is Here Again (Day 4)

Postby Myloninja13 » 05 Jan 2019, 16:27

Subotai45 wrote:
Myloninja13 wrote:Wait, I'm actually on at the same time as someone else yayyyyy!

Sub, how you feeling?


I scumread you both (Joe and you).

The Agi shit is small but consistently damning. Your own engagement has had a few bright points, but is largely the same sort of active lurking I called you out for in Dune. You were town, so I'm trying to cut you slack in terms of the nature of how you play the game, because that could just be consistent across alignment. But your rule … ignorance, on reflection, honestly feels way more like an attempt to make fake townslips than something any reasonably involved and mechanically competent townie could think. I'll get to Joe later, but our confusion over order of operations - a consistent set of which does not appear to exist - is a fairly niche issue that isn't in the rules published and needed GM clarification. You straight-up have no gosh-darn idea how the pushing/gift mechanic works, and that's pretty integral to this game. I also don't know what to make of your relationship with Ae. It seems pretty hard buddying to be

It's hard cuz I don't love Joe either. His case against me was utter nonsense and I think him going for the easiest targets IS scummy, which is why I'm wary of lynching you. I pushed you hard in Dune and you might, I guess, just have a style of play that seems real scummy to me. However, I recognize a lot of my scummy-meter is OMGUS against Joe, so I'm having a hard time figuring out how much of my case actually holds up in any kind of impartial look. His argument about wincons is pretty weird, I don't get it, I don't know if it's fake scum or I'm just confused.

Kim I'm not even townreading as hard as I mightve. Grinch clearly wants to be in a holding pattern, and was in no rush to win the game. I still townread her, though, because even without the single-handedly killing scum, she feels townier than both of you.

I dunno. Fuck. Her not dying is really weird from last night. And the Aeschines case really came out of the blue, which would be easy if she knew.

I just have a hard time seeing the game where Kim is scum and we had the misfortune to have Joe "Subs saved the town so must be scum" Hoya and Agi "I am scum, look at my sig" Mandur / Mylo "Never read the rules" Ninja, in addition to the dearly departed from earlier in the game.


Yeah, I did somewhat consider the possibilty of Kim!Scum again once they didn't die but the reasoning to townread her is still valid, and Kim's reasoning as to why any scum would avoid NK-ing is fair.

BTW, thanks for making this post! I think at least point the only person scum CAN be is Joe, just from the strength of the townreads on y'all.
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Re: Christmas Time Is Here Again (Day 4)

Postby Myloninja13 » 05 Jan 2019, 16:31

It's 1:27am for me, so I must sleep soonish. According to what Nook told me, I'm going to be sleeping when the deadline ends, so sorry for not being there again.

I'm sorry guys, I played a pretty bad game overall and I'm sorry. Even though I tried to avoid it, I still played tactically instead of actively finding scum and I was lazy for most of day 3. I COULD'VE finished my entire summary in a day because I'm on school holidays and had the entire time but I procrastinated and if I get mislynched here I understand why.

But please, any remaining town please please at least consider me!town and see how it fits for you. You don't have to end on it, but please, in this last moments give it a final reconsider!
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Re: Christmas Time Is Here Again (Day 4)

Postby Myloninja13 » 05 Jan 2019, 16:38

AHHHHH trying to think of last-minute arguments but most of them involve meta that's A) Not convincing enough and B) way too much effort for this. Like, saying "I usually would scumread my partners instead of giving positive attention" is true but given that I missed the ONE DAY I was gonna do all the things I don't even have much proof here for you guys anyway

Just best of luck guys, I have faith that we can pull this off! And if not, I promise no hard feelings. It's just a game, but I'll have my fingers crossed regardless :D ! And also some of my toes for good measure haha.
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Re: Christmas Time Is Here Again (Day 4)

Postby kimpossible » 05 Jan 2019, 17:00

So I have not peaced out at this point. I would still consider (and have been gnawing over in my head) switching my vote to Joe. But there won't be any more big analyses from me in the next 8 hours.

The buddying bothers me. Mylo was soooo up Aes's butt, I'm really hesitant to say scum would act like that together. And the past-deadline post... Is it an actual act of desperate buddying by Aes, in hopes that Mylo shows up, or an attempt to look like he's buddying him after I've given my last will and it's possible Aes might be going down?

And one other thing... When I mentioned the rule about Max only using Yes/No/Maybe, which we now know was dropped from the game, Mylo's response was "True, but maybe Joe didn't know that." As in, if he's scum, Mylo would have been faking not knowing that that rule was not in use.

Whereas Joe says he assumed that any rules not in this thread were not in the game, but the rule about lynching Santa resulting in immediate town loss wasn't in this thread, and everyone took it as given that the rule was still in play. So why did Joe "know" that some of the rules from the signups thread were dropped, when some others clearly weren't?
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Re: Christmas Time Is Here Again (Day 4)

Postby JoeHoya06 » 05 Jan 2019, 20:25

Sorry I wasn't on last night, guys; I will just say that if you've never had back trouble and enjoyed the special thrill of sitting or laying down somewhere and then being physically unable to get up for hours on end, don't try it!

Subotai45 wrote:His arguemnet about wincons is pretty weird, I don't get it, I don't know if it's fake scum or I'm just confused.


Are you talking about my explanation to Kim about my thoughts on why the Grinch isn't concerned about gifts anymore? Or about why none of the three of us would logically choose not to make a kill last night?

Subotai45 wrote: Her not dying is really weird from last night. And the Aeschines case really came out of the blue, which would be easy if she knew.


She doesn't seem to think so (even though she was pretty certain she'd be offed at the end of D3). Do you agree with me that it's weird that NOBODY died? Like, that's the basis of the above question, too; I think the Grinch's optimal play was to kill last night, not steal a present, unless the chances of winning in a three-person final day are smaller than the chances of getting a mislynch today.

Subotai45 wrote:Joe "Subs saved the town so must be scum" Hoya


That middle part is pronounced "Subotai was at best wrong, at worst lying, and whichever it was put incorrect information into the thread and then later admitted that yes, his plan guaranteed a half-loss for the town, but still scumreads the guy who was right about it all along."

kimpossible wrote:Whereas Joe says he assumed that any rules not in this thread were not in the game, but the rule about lynching Santa resulting in immediate town loss wasn't in this thread, and everyone took it as given that the rule was still in play. So why did Joe "know" that some of the rules from the signups thread were dropped, when some others clearly weren't?


What the hell? Here is our win condition:

The Rules wrote:Christmas Enthusiasts win if they execute The Grinch and Max, and Santa is alive (does not have to be the original Santa)


It's not a "rule about lynching Santa (which we didn't do) resulting in immediate town loss," it's "Santa being dead and not replaced makes our win condition impossible, ergo we cannot win."

I didn't know about this "half-win" stuff because there is no such thing as a "half-win" in any sort of game I've ever been a part of, forum or not. And if you're creating a "half-win," I believe it should be in the rules, and I believe that if there is a post in the thread from the GM that lists the rules, those should be the rules, regardless of any other thread where rules are discussed.

If I didn't know any better it sounds a lot like you're trying to carve out room to protect a partner. I DO know better; GrinchKim would have already won the game. But why are you hung up on this stuff? Help me understand. Do you think the scum was given a set of rules and we weren't? Do you think I've secretly asked all of this stuff and lied about it? Subotai has mentioned multiple times that Mylo doesn't know the rules, but you're questioning your thoughts on him because I *do* know them, but just the ones that are in this thread vs. all the previous iterations? Like, what about me knowing the rules makes you uneasy about me? I don't get it.

As for Aeschines' last post, I hear what you're saying, but I guess my question is what else could he have done? Subo was gone. You said you were gone but then had checked in, so maybe you would pop back in. Mylo was the only person he could appeal to to vote Subo, partner or not; and if he does, and you come back in, maybe you change.

I don't know, I just feel like he probably feels like he has to make a last-ditch effort, and Mylo was the only player left who didn't have a vote down at that point. But I am also looking at this knowing that it's not me, and it's not you, and you've convinced me it's probably not Subotai, so it has to be Mylo.
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Re: Christmas Time Is Here Again (Day 4)

Postby kimpossible » 05 Jan 2019, 22:34

I'm questioning it because Mylo's slot is essentially garbage as far as trying to make a behavioral read on gameplay. I have precious little to try to win this game with, I'm grasping at straws.

The "town loses instantly if Santa is lynched" rule was the subject of a LOT of D1 conversation though. Did you just miss that? It was the reason we agreed Santa had to reveal if he was in danger of a ML.
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Re: Christmas Time Is Here Again (Day 4)

Postby kimpossible » 05 Jan 2019, 22:51

Also, how could I possibly be "carving out room to protect a partner?" If I ever had a partner, he dead. What's the purpose of even making a comment like that?
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Re: Christmas Time Is Here Again (Day 4)

Postby JoeHoya06 » 05 Jan 2019, 23:53

kimpossible wrote:The "town loses instantly if Santa is lynched" rule was the subject of a LOT of D1 conversation though. Did you just miss that? It was the reason we agreed Santa had to reveal if he was in danger of a ML.


CLEARLY we are not communicating very well here. The rules, as they are written on page one of this thread, which I have had open in a tab on my browser since the start of the game, say that Santa must be alive for the town to win. To me, that means that if Santa is dead, the town cannot win. So yeah, Santa should have revealed if he was about to get lynched, because if we lynch him, we lose. I don't know what you think I think, what you're trying to get at, or what you think I'm not understanding here.

kimpossible wrote:Also, how could I possibly be "carving out room to protect a partner?" If I ever had a partner, he dead. What's the purpose of even making a comment like that?


I literally said that I know you're not. My point was "this is weird behavior, but I am not scumreading you for it, for obvious reasons." I just don't understand your line of thinking on me knowing the rules that are written vs. the ones discussed during signups being problematic, to the point that if we were in a situation where you *could* be covering for a partner, I'd be thinking you were doing so.
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