Look at the Animals Mafia: Game Over, Scum Win

[Dwiltse1114]

Cool. So just for funsies.

bk3.

Dwilt, bk3 and Keir are gonna vote to kill you. If you expect to win, you need to convince me to move back to Keir. Hop to bk3 and I'll join them in killing you. Fail to convince me and I'll join them in killing you. But the entire case on you is "Dwilt isn't committed the way he would be if he were town" and all you're saying is "Yeah, I'm totally not committed." That's not good enough if you're town.

well whichever ive defended myself to the best of my abilities in this game gave reasoning as to why I think scum is kier over you or bk (ufo) and that's all I can really do im not putting a surplus of hours to try to convince one to vote kier over myself so if im lynched well guess what town loses in a game that im not gonna sweat about as I haven't from the very beginning...

ive been on here now for about 6 hours keeping track while doing other things of import so if theres any questions ill answer them as for that ive done what I am able...

ergo im not doing my usual 2-6 hour iso reads of everyone through narrative stand point for the above reasons as well as reasons given prior to this post... as well as the fact that im trying to get away from those anyway seeing as they arnt much of import or help solve the mystery of who is scum anyway I mentioned this in the last game I played as well

[Keirador]

@ kier

Same logic should apply here, but I don't think it does. My whole deal on dwilt, the reason I townread him so frequently, is that he's very committed as town. The inverse is that he isn't as scum. I've seen him just straight up quit as scum, under like no pressure. Yes, as scum who was paying attention and pursuing a win condition, he could have made a play for the win at EOD. That he didn't do so doesn't make me think he's therefore town. It's fully and completely within the meta on him that I've been working with, that has been so accurate so far, that he's just scum and doesn't give a shit when he's scum.

So, dwilt.

bolded underlined (2 parts)...

seeing as how im fairly certain u are scum (out of poe and gut instinct on this one) I can see the falseness falling off ur tongue but still...

1 going back to literally the entirety of the game I came into this game literally stating I gave I very little thought prior and wouldn't be too invested in it... so as someone who isn't completely invested in a game how do you expect me to be commited?...

Because you've said before that you'd given little prior thought and I still saw signs of investment frequently enough to correctly townread you. You never claimed my townreads of you were based on non-indicative things. If I've just been wrong about your approach to the game the entire time, then I'll need to apologize in the AAR, as well as acknowledge my wild luck in reading you as town correctly so many times.

2 theres a difference between giving up in a game and not even trying had I wanted to give up and just been lynched I would have made 2 posts day 1 with nothing in them and if I didn't get lynched day 1 did the same day 2... but yet I still try where and when I am able which makes that narrative u built for me false... had I been scum I wuld have had no qualms for voting telleo last night and taking it to a 50-50 at worst (seeing as how no one else was on so close to EOD which was evident)

Except it wasn't all that clear you were fully present, and as bk pointed out, you didn't know when the day would end.

and even as scum had I not done such u kier would have died last night...

Could you flesh this out?

[Keirador]

bolded underlined--- false assumption experienced scum players would also keep all players alive to not take it down to a 2 vs 1 scenario rather then a 3 vs 1...

So yeah, given that you understand this well, why are you claiming that if you were scum you would have NKed me?

[Keirador]

I'm sorry y'all, for some reason I was sure the day ended in the morning (Eastern time), and sat down to play just to find the Day was over. No idea why I thought that.

Anyway, I think and hope that I had made my preferences pretty clear: SJG for another Day, or failing that, dwilt, so even without a vote down I shouldn't be a mystery.

I mean I get that you made your preferences clear. I don't disagree. I just am wondering how those preferences never became a vote at any point in the past two days.

Because my preferences were in conflict with each other, shooting sjg for more time required sufficient buy-in for it not be a wasted vote, you had "hard-passed" shooting sjg but I thought that wasn't as solid as you were claiming, and sjg deserved a chance to make the argument he shouldn't be killed for more time. Again, I thought I had like 12 more hours to clear this all up.

[Dwiltse1114]

Could you flesh this out?

The phase I had used...

had I been scum I wuld have had no qualms for voting telleo last night and taking it to a 50-50 at worst (seeing as how no one else was on so close to EOD which was evident) and even as scum had I not done such u kier would have died last night...

Meaning if I was scum and even if I were not on at EOD or bold enough to vote to take the vote to kill telleo in a 50-50 chance then I would have killed u last night because...

1 I wouldnt kill telleo because telleo was/is the only one in this game who has given doubt to what you all claim is me being scummy...

And 2 because killing bk would have been an obvious sign of me being scum seeing as how he was/is the one clamoring the loudest saying I'm scum...

So me saying the above quote simply means that if I were scum that didnt try to win yesterday you would have still ended up dead with the night kill scum seemed to have but didnt use...

Ppe if I didnt care as scum like u claim I dont care as scum why would I have cared for 1 less person in the game where it already appears I'm the next to be mislynched...?

[Keirador]

This is further supported by some insta-townreads I had on UFO on D2. I'll go back and detail that. At the mo', I literally cannot remember the cause, just the read.

Were they in-thread yesterday? I don't really remember if you said then.

I wanted to let UFO tease out further his thought process before definitively declaring a read on it, but that kinda didn't happen. I do have a passing comment indicating I thought UFO's open to D2 was so bad it was town:

Jeebers, do I think it's just dwilt? I want it to be high-drama and be Telleo, or UFO doing a fucking star turn (because his intro to today is not reflective of being a good scum), but like. . . shit, maybe it's easy. I have some hallmarks of TOWN DWILT and I don't see them here. Town dwilt is a try-hard. He seems to not care so much here.

Idea here is UFO's play was bad, but in a way that as town he just didn't think hard enough, and as scum he needed to be actively faking a shitty bad thought process. It didn't make sense to blame you for the NK, and if he had been scum he'd have known before posting that his post didn't make sense.

[Keirador]

Hey Telleo would you mind telling us what the fuck just happened?

Oh right, it was right there in the beginning of the day. This is. . . well to be frank, this is dumb. The underpinning of this vote doesn't stand up to the the slightest scrutiny. It was pretty clear from a reading of the roles/rules that Telleo wasn't the reason for that elimination, nor even was dwilt based on published available information. An actual scum would've know this was a stupid vote before making it. I see this as something of a derpclear, and I don't think UFO is somebody who attempts derpclears.

But like... weren't you questioning him around that issue yesterday? So when did this become an "insta-townread?"

Right, I was absolutely questioning him about it. It was either a derpclear or an attempted derpclear, and therefore worth looking into, especially in such a small game.

[Keirador]

Right. Only way I can justify scum-Telleo now is if the mafia nightkill was one-time-only, there's too many loops to jump through for it to make sense otherwise. But it was confirmed that they had a usual factional nightkill, right?

The question then is why Telleo is still alive. Telleo, why doesn't scum-Keirador kill you last night? In that scenario he's going to push on dwilt for the last lynch and you're the only one who's expressed doubts about that. Doesn't he just kill you and gently massage my confirmation bias to get the win? Seems to me that the only person who keeps you alive last night as scum is dwilt.

I mean, scumKeir is on record as being anti-doing-the-town's-work-for-them. I fully believe scum Keir does not conduct a kill that night, especially knowing that the town MUST conduct a lynch the following day. Not because I'm not a good kill target, just because unless I'm 100% locked-town-clear, it's eliminating uncertainty from the town.

I think the benefits of being 3:1 over 2:1 would occur to anybody in this game who's scum (they certainly seem to have occurred to dwilt despite his claim he would have brought us down to 2:1). So, yeah, this is generally right.

Only counterpoint being, and this you have to judge for yourself, how clear it was that your EOD behavior exonerated you of being scum before you had to say so yourself. Everyone present seems to be strongly townreading you over that, so if the one of us who's scum could see overnight that you'd made a strongly clearing move, the scum one of us should've killed you.

[Keirador]

Cool. So just for funsies.

bk3.

Dwilt, bk3 and Keir are gonna vote to kill you. If you expect to win, you need to convince me to move back to Keir. Hop to bk3 and I'll join them in killing you. Fail to convince me and I'll join them in killing you. But the entire case on you is "Dwilt isn't committed the way he would be if he were town" and all you're saying is "Yeah, I'm totally not committed." That's not good enough if you're town.

Huh. Novel. I like it.

[Keirador]

Could you flesh this out?

The phase I had used...

had I been scum I wuld have had no qualms for voting telleo last night and taking it to a 50-50 at worst (seeing as how no one else was on so close to EOD which was evident) and even as scum had I not done such u kier would have died last night...

Meaning if I was scum and even if I were not on at EOD or bold enough to vote to take the vote to kill telleo in a 50-50 chance then I would have killed u last night because...

1 I wouldnt kill telleo because telleo was/is the only one in this game who has given doubt to what you all claim is me being scummy...

And 2 because killing bk would have been an obvious sign of me being scum seeing as how he was/is the one clamoring the loudest saying I'm scum...

So me saying the above quote simply means that if I were scum that didnt try to win yesterday you would have still ended up dead with the night kill scum seemed to have but didnt use...

Ppe if I didnt care as scum like u claim I dont care as scum why would I have cared for 1 less person in the game where it already appears I'm the next to be mislynched...?

My problem here dwilt is that you can't seem to decide whether a no-kill was an obvious choice for last night, or whether we should assume you're NOT scum because you would've killed somebody.