Look at the Animals Mafia: Game Over, Scum Win

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Re: Look at the Animals Mafia: Day 3

Postby Telleo » 27 Sep 2018, 05:28

Also.

If I were scum, I'd have won last night (unless one of y'all wants to argue that I knew about the NK, knew that a no-lynch would put us at MYLO, and knew that I'd be stealing a power that kills people at EOD, and therefore knew that I only had to survive one more day because if literally anyone else was lynched I'd win, and chose NOT to do that as scum).

If Dwilt were scum, he could have voted me yesterday. I thought he was gone when I switched my vote away from him, but he reappeared after. To test, I hung around the deadline to switch my vote if Dwilt re-voted, and did so while hiding my online status, something I typically don't do. I saw Dwilt here. I know he was observing until at least 6:00 my time (the given EOD deadline). If he'd voted me and gotten away with it, scumDwilt woulda won yesterday. Makes me pretty hesitant to vote him tonight.

So right now I'm picking between the slot that ZZ soul-townread, but then had a batshit crazy opening yesterday, but evidently also had RL stuff, and who was then replaced by bkbkbk who's played calmly so far, and the slot that has had a lot of reads to offer but never placed a vote.
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Re: Look at the Animals Mafia: Day 3

Postby Keirador » 27 Sep 2018, 06:30

I'm sorry y'all, for some reason I was sure the day ended in the morning (Eastern time), and sat down to play just to find the Day was over. No idea why I thought that.

Anyway, I think and hope that I had made my preferences pretty clear: SJG for another Day, or failing that, dwilt, so even without a vote down I shouldn't be a mystery.
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Re: Look at the Animals Mafia: Day 3

Postby Keirador » 27 Sep 2018, 06:52

I'd also point out that you can at least believe I really wasn't around for EOD regardless of alignment, because if I'm scum (which would mean dwilt is town), and I had been around, I could've voted to put dwilt in contention and possibly win. Which leads me to:

Telleo wrote:If I were scum, I'd have won last night

I agree. Funny thing is, reading back on the day sjg claimed I was townreading Telleo, and frankly I don't know where he got that impression. Because I was friendly? I like to think I'm at least occasionally friendly anyway. Anyhow, I can't read that EOD and not think Tellers is town, which is a bitch for me to write because the last time I put down in writing how likely it was that Telleo was town, she was scum and won. But like, the progression on dwilt there was crystal clear, the swerve to SJG which was welcome but not foreseen (by me at least), and like. . . even for Telleo, Christ on a bike that's taking the harder route just to rub it in our faces with memes in the AAR.


Telleo wrote:If Dwilt were scum, he could have voted me yesterday. I thought he was gone when I switched my vote away from him, but he reappeared after. To test, I hung around the deadline to switch my vote if Dwilt re-voted, and did so while hiding my online status, something I typically don't do. I saw Dwilt here. I know he was observing until at least 6:00 my time (the given EOD deadline). If he'd voted me and gotten away with it, scumDwilt woulda won yesterday. Makes me pretty hesitant to vote him tonight.

Same logic should apply here, but I don't think it does. My whole deal on dwilt, the reason I townread him so frequently, is that he's very committed as town. The inverse is that he isn't as scum. I've seen him just straight up quit as scum, under like no pressure. Yes, as scum who was paying attention and pursuing a win condition, he could have made a play for the win at EOD. That he didn't do so doesn't make me think he's therefore town. It's fully and completely within the meta on him that I've been working with, that has been so accurate so far, that he's just scum and doesn't give a shit when he's scum.

So, dwilt.

This is further supported by some insta-townreads I had on UFO on D2. I'll go back and detail that. At the mo', I literally cannot remember the cause, just the read.
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Re: Look at the Animals Mafia: Day 1

Postby Keirador » 27 Sep 2018, 07:15

UFO Fever wrote:Hey Telleo would you mind telling us what the fuck just happened?

Oh right, it was right there in the beginning of the day. This is. . . well to be frank, this is dumb. The underpinning of this vote doesn't stand up to the the slightest scrutiny. It was pretty clear from a reading of the roles/rules that Telleo wasn't the reason for that elimination, nor even was dwilt based on published available information. An actual scum would've know this was a stupid vote before making it. I see this as something of a derpclear, and I don't think UFO is somebody who attempts derpclears.
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Re: Look at the Animals Mafia: Day 3

Postby bkbkbk » 27 Sep 2018, 12:33

Right. Only way I can justify scum-Telleo now is if the mafia nightkill was one-time-only, there's too many loops to jump through for it to make sense otherwise. But it was confirmed that they had a usual factional nightkill, right?

The question then is why Telleo is still alive. Telleo, why doesn't scum-Keirador kill you last night? In that scenario he's going to push on dwilt for the last lynch and you're the only one who's expressed doubts about that. Doesn't he just kill you and gently massage my confirmation bias to get the win? Seems to me that the only person who keeps you alive last night as scum is dwilt.

Telleo wrote:If Dwilt were scum, he could have voted me yesterday. I thought he was gone when I switched my vote away from him, but he reappeared after. To test, I hung around the deadline to switch my vote if Dwilt re-voted, and did so while hiding my online status, something I typically don't do. I saw Dwilt here. I know he was observing until at least 6:00 my time (the given EOD deadline). If he'd voted me and gotten away with it, scumDwilt woulda won yesterday. Makes me pretty hesitant to vote him tonight.

Bolded is the key thing for me. I never feel great about this sort of reasoning because it assumes scum are bold enough to go for the big play like that, and I don't think many people are. Especially when we don't play with hard deadlines on this site - look how much time you all had past the original deadline at the end of day 1.

But like, Telleo, you've got this line of reasoning and you've got your reaction test stuff from yesterday - why did you poison dwilt last night? Surely the play would have been to poison Keriador and then lynch dwilt in case you're wrong?

Dwiltse1114 wrote:I'm aware y'all think I'm scum but who is each of yours second choice on scum?

Keirador, obviously.

Dwiltse1114 wrote:And why has no one really pursued other lines of questioning elsewhere other then me?

This is hilarious. Have you pursued a line of questioning anywhere?
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Re: Look at the Animals Mafia: Day 3

Postby Dwiltse1114 » 27 Sep 2018, 15:57

Telleo wrote:Keir. How have we ended two days, both in overtime, without you placing a single vote?

FY'allsI, Dwilt's probs gonna die at EOD. I stole his power and hit him with it. If he's town, he'll die at EOD. If he's not town, well, I hoped his scum power was just a straight kill, but it evidently is not.


I would die at EOD seeing as how the snake isn't immune to his own ability (no indication that snake is immune to his own ability in the role itself)... so im an auto death at EOD and lynching me is a sure fire way to 1 lose the game as town and 2 a waste of a lynch seeing as how ill be dead when whoever gets lynched is lynched anyway...
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Re: Look at the Animals Mafia: Day 3

Postby Dwiltse1114 » 27 Sep 2018, 16:02

Telleo wrote:Also.

If I were scum, I'd have won last night (unless one of y'all wants to argue that I knew about the NK, knew that a no-lynch would put us at MYLO, and knew that I'd be stealing a power that kills people at EOD, and therefore knew that I only had to survive one more day because if literally anyone else was lynched I'd win, and chose NOT to do that as scum).

If Dwilt were scum, he could have voted me yesterday. I thought he was gone when I switched my vote away from him, but he reappeared after. To test, I hung around the deadline to switch my vote if Dwilt re-voted, and did so while hiding my online status, something I typically don't do. I saw Dwilt here. I know he was observing until at least 6:00 my time (the given EOD deadline). If he'd voted me and gotten away with it, scumDwilt woulda won yesterday. Makes me pretty hesitant to vote him tonight.

So right now I'm picking between the slot that ZZ soul-townread, but then had a batshit crazy opening yesterday, but evidently also had RL stuff, and who was then replaced by bkbkbk who's played calmly so far, and the slot that has had a lot of reads to offer but never placed a vote.


bolded underlined---again what (for once) gives telleo a town clear from me and yall can argue that I would keep telleo alive as scum which would be true but I also wouldn't choose to not kill anyone as scum I most likely would have went for bk (ufo) as he is also kinda an overall town read...

bolded--- I covered why I didn't vote telleo at eod yesterday (I saw her as town) and sure I could have but regardless of weather I was lynched or her if she was in fact town town would have then lost... so switching my vote as town would have literally just sealed towns fate... (this is all from view that I believe[d] she is town)
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Re: Look at the Animals Mafia: Day 3

Postby Dwiltse1114 » 27 Sep 2018, 16:09

@ kier

Same logic should apply here, but I don't think it does. My whole deal on dwilt, the reason I townread him so frequently, is that he's very committed as town. The inverse is that he isn't as scum. I've seen him just straight up quit as scum, under like no pressure. Yes, as scum who was paying attention and pursuing a win condition, he could have made a play for the win at EOD. That he didn't do so doesn't make me think he's therefore town. It's fully and completely within the meta on him that I've been working with, that has been so accurate so far, that he's just scum and doesn't give a shit when he's scum.

So, dwilt.


bolded underlined (2 parts)...

seeing as how im fairly certain u are scum (out of poe and gut instinct on this one) I can see the falseness falling off ur tongue but still...

1 going back to literally the entirety of the game I came into this game literally stating I gave I very little thought prior and wouldn't be too invested in it... so as someone who isn't completely invested in a game how do you expect me to be commited?...

2 theres a difference between giving up in a game and not even trying had I wanted to give up and just been lynched I would have made 2 posts day 1 with nothing in them and if I didn't get lynched day 1 did the same day 2... but yet I still try where and when I am able which makes that narrative u built for me false... had I been scum I wuld have had no qualms for voting telleo last night and taking it to a 50-50 at worst (seeing as how no one else was on so close to EOD which was evident) and even as scum had I not done such u kier would have died last night...
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Re: Look at the Animals Mafia: Day 3

Postby Dwiltse1114 » 27 Sep 2018, 16:25

@bk

Right. Only way I can justify scum-Telleo now is if the mafia nightkill was one-time-only, there's too many loops to jump through for it to make sense otherwise. But it was confirmed that they had a usual factional nightkill, right?

The question then is why Telleo is still alive. Telleo, why doesn't scum-Keirador kill you last night? In that scenario he's going to push on dwilt for the last lynch and you're the only one who's expressed doubts about that. Doesn't he just kill you and gently massage my confirmation bias to get the win? Seems to me that the only person who keeps you alive last night as scum is dwilt.


bolded---pretty sure it was yes

bolded underlined--- false assumption experienced scum players would also keep all players alive to not take it down to a 2 vs 1 scenario rather then a 3 vs 1... also in the fact that telleo had doubts it would have been weird for a scum me to kill her in any scenario and im pretty sure any three of you would realize that and easily use it as a frame...

Bolded is the key thing for me. I never feel great about this sort of reasoning because it assumes scum are bold enough to go for the big play like that, and I don't think many people are. Especially when we don't play with hard deadlines on this site - look how much time you all had past the original deadline at the end of day 1.

But like, Telleo, you've got this line of reasoning and you've got your reaction test stuff from yesterday - why did you poison dwilt last night? Surely the play would have been to poison Keriador and then lynch dwilt in case you're wrong?


underlined--- underlined is the key thing for me... had I been a none caring scum like kier wants to give meta/narrative too I would have voted telleo as already expressed as to why had I been scum as well as my choice of night kill...

bolded underlined--- same result comes from the actions you lynch me im town whoever is poisoned dies with me and hopefully they are scum... in the current scenario I will die with whoever else is lynched so if kier is lynched and turns town well im still dieing with the dude as scum or as town so ill be dead EOD anyway with town having majority if I was scum... same scenario and end different route so not sure why ur worried about it...

Keirador, obviously.


not really obviously I haven't seen any scum hunting from u in any direction other then me...

This is hilarious. Have you pursued a line of questioning anywhere?


no because I never pursue lines of questioning period... sure ill ask one or two questions here or there if I need something clarified but that's it... that's also me as being invested in the game to a degree that im caring about winning as town... so no I don't pursue lines of questioning at the very best of times when I absolutely wanna win as town and am invested in the game ill make mega narrative posts while still not asking any questions I refer u to any of my games on this account on this site...

and not to be that guy but even if I did use lines of question as a way to find scum for myself all my time has been invested in answering everyone elses questions and accusations directed at me in a means to defend myself to not see the other foolish towns here lynch a fellow townie and lose the game due to my lack of investment...

as such ive defended myself accurately and commonly against any accusations and questions directed at me so beyond that its on u guys ill be on here and there if yall have any more things to pull out ur asses to claim to know why my lack of investment and time leads to me being scum...
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Re: Look at the Animals Mafia: Day 3

Postby Dwiltse1114 » 27 Sep 2018, 18:33

btw before I forget again since im here kierador...
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