Fable Mafia 11: The Zeppo Day 6

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Re: Fable Mafia 11: The Zeppo Day 6

Postby Keirador » 19 Aug 2018, 05:55

Turns out taking care of a four-year old is FAR MORE time intensive than I would have guessed. Anyway. I've been able to read some even while I haven't been able to post effectively. So this is impressionistic, not quote-by-quote. I'd say I'll get you the quotes, but being honest with myself I probably won't. I'm sorry, I would not have signed up for this game had I fully understood how little time I would have to commit to it.

I still really don't like AKFD. Early on, and decreasingly after he got called on but still perceptibly, he was consistently asking the thread for what he ought to be posting. That can be a thing that townies who have no idea what they're doing here do, but I actually think the more common panicked townie response is to not trust anyone, and think of yourself as alone-against-the-world, not to seek validation from players you suspect are trying to kill you. Extreme paranoia in new players has long served me well as a newbie towntell; learning that you actually have allies in-thread is, in my opinion, a difficult but impressive turning point in town play. So that AKFD was so friendly and persuadable so early on is a black mark to me.

RedSun seems less active (a sin I can hardly rail against given the log in my own eye), but also pretty. . . convicted? Of his reads, at least. He makes sure to exclaim confusion at various points, but he typically ends up with town and scum reads he's not conflicted about. I don't love that, but it was also my experience of RedSun when he replaced me in Second Chance mafia and he was town. I reeeaaaaallllly wish he'd been more conflicted about his gut reads there.

Condude just strikes me as somebody who didn't fucking care. I wish he'd subbed out earlier. But, and I think condude would dispute this in an AAR and yet I think it's true anyway, my experience is condude bothers to care a bit more when he's town, even when he has other shit going on. I think he prefers town and puts more into it when he's town. He's more into the puzzle-solving and less into the performance. He dirtied his spot in Alien Infection by "condude-being-condude" weird activity (being town), he dirtied his spot in Internal Affairs by inactivity (being scum), and I think that's what we're seeing here. Even so, it's a marginal read, which puts a lot on sinnybee, and honestly I strongly read her as newb-town, but she's not a newb, and I have no idea what her skill level is as scum. I think it would be insulting to think the work she has put in so far would be beyond her capabilities as scum. Leaves me with a big ol' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Telleo. . . jesus, Telleo. Everything I know about Telleo's scum game screams that Telleo is town here. She's not anywhere she should be lynch-wise. What did killing UDC get her? She's not threatened by UDC, and she knew UFO would die eventually anyway. Is she really going out of her way to save scumchums? No Telleo that I know. But, again, it's just demeaning to imagine Telleo couldn't vary her style. She could, she can, and she will, if she needs to. But, like, does she need to, here? Does she submit a NO-KILL that night, instead of just killing. . . I dunno, me?
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Re: Fable Mafia 11: The Zeppo Day 4

Postby Keirador » 19 Aug 2018, 06:46

Final D1:
shadowface (8): AKFD, condude1, Conq, Keirador, nanooktheeskimo, UpsideDownChuck, kimbyrle, RedSun
Nanook (2): Dwiltse1114, Telleo
Keirador (1): shadowface
UpsideDownChuck (1): UFO Fever

Final D2:
UpsideDownChuck (5): AKFD, condude1, Firestorm94, Telleo, UFO Fever
UFO Fever (5): Keirador, nanooktheeskimo, RedSun, UpsideDownChuck, Dwiltse

Final D3:
UFO (5): Dwiltse1114, Firestorm94, Telleo, condude1, RedSun
Firestorm94 (1): UFO Fever
Not voting: Keirador, AKFD

Final D4:
No Lynch (3): Dwiltse1114, sinnybee, Telleo
willie23 (2): Keirador, RedSun
Telleo (1): willie23

Final D5:
No Lynch (3): Keirador, sinnybee, Telleo
Keirador (1): willie23
Willie23 (1): RedSun


So to build on previous observations:

D2, myself or RedSun could have ensured that UDC died instead of UFO, instead of the coin-toss it ended up being. AKFD/willie, condude/sinny, or Telleo could have ensured it was UFO and saved UDC. Given the context, this isn't a crazy or bad place to bus, so this is all more dependent on scum team's future options. Not independently indicative.

D3 . . . I'm crippled talking about this day because I didn't vote, but I think any fair and reasonable reading of my posts make it fairly clear I was voting UFO unless I found something extraordinary. I feel like I was pretty clear about that; I don't know why AKFD didn't vote. If he was solidly leaning somewhere, I didn't see it. A weird broken day for sure, so I don't want to read much into it. But. Like. I can't not.

Final D4:
WELL HERE'S A THING! If willie is town, then if either sinnybee or Telleo were scum, they were in a position RIGHT THEN AND THERE to win the game. Sure, I was sleep-addled and wine-addled and y'all were sure and determined to remind me of that, but I'm pretty sure both sinny and Telleo were around to lynch willie at End Of Day. So. . . if willie is town, neither sinny nor Telleo are scum. I feel confident about that.
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Re: Fable Mafia 11: The Zeppo Day 6

Postby Keirador » 19 Aug 2018, 07:10

Is willie23 just being let go by his chum? I can actually accept that because I spent like twoish hours today re-reading and I think he's pretty burnt. So who is the chum who was willing to burn willie?
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Re: Fable Mafia 11: The Zeppo Day 6

Postby sinnybee » 19 Aug 2018, 22:44

Keirador wrote:Even so, it's a marginal read, which puts a lot on sinnybee, and honestly I strongly read her as newb-town, but she's not a newb, and I have no idea what her skill level is as scum. I think it would be insulting to think the work she has put in so far would be beyond her capabilities as scum. Leaves me with a big ol' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Let's talk about my experience with mafia for a bit.

I started playing mafia as a teenager, well over a decade ago. My aunt got married and there was plenty of cousins on both sides of the aisle (13 on my side). We played huge games of vanilla mafia in the basement of the home of my grandparents.
In subsequent years, my cousins and I continued to play mafia, at first just with the mafia, cop, and vanilla town roles. We gradually added more roles like witch doctor, jailer, werewolf, and cupid/lovers. It was so much fun--we played in many different rooms of my uncle's/great-uncle's ranch and other places. My brother was most often our GM and would give us gruesome details of the remains of NKs.
I have only played face-to-face mafia/werewolves with my cousins and I have only played online mafia at playdip (other than a couple games of Town of Salem, that Dwiltse always plays).

My preferred method of playing mafia will ALWAYS be face-to-face--it is the best and so much fun.
I do typically prefer playdip live mafia over playdip forum mafia as I'm accustomed to short games of mafia and am usually averse to reading through a lot of mafia posts.
With that in mind, I feel that I am much more into and much better at gut reads than I am at extensive scum-hunting and speculation.

You're right in that I'm not exactly a newb. However, I'm clearly not an advanced player here either. Perhaps, I am an intermediate player, who is better at face-to-face mafia and worse at forum mafia. I do enjoy mafia (even forum mafia), but I honestly do not like to think about it too much nor do I like to try to dive into detailed analyses of other players.

I am the type of person who is a genius at some things and mediocre at other things.

When I was excited about Diplomacy, I was top-tier champion of the game, both in ftf and online, both in tactics and diplomacy, with my biggest weakness of getting too big too early so that others would want to take me out (the weakness mostly coming out later, when I was a lot less excited about Diplomacy). Keirador is correct that I don't like to lie. I avoid lying and even in one Diplomacy game I decided to not stab in addition to not lie and I ended getting all the way up to 17 supply centers (18 needed for a solo victory) only to lose the game, when I could have stabbed for the solo earlier (so stupid of me lol).

In mafia, I have never claimed or thought of myself as a good player, nor do I think myself capable of putting more effort into my online play. I'm just geared toward ftf mafia play and am left-handed in forum mafia. If you look at my recent playdip live mafia play, you will notice that I appear to be quite ADD, random, talking about salad, all over the place, and/or lurking in my games (about 18 of 20 as town). Then, toward the end of the day or the game, I try to focus/analyze in my head and/or make a gut read of who I think is town and who I think is scum. For me, I feel that I am just as good at accurate town reads and scum reads when random things are talked about. I think the upcoming game of hydra mafia will be quite exciting, btw, as I assume there will be a lot of off-topic posting.

In ftf mafia, I prefer being town role > vanilla town > mafia and am a better player than a GM (though that's mostly just due to not being a GM often enough to have the sequence of night orders memorized).
In playdip live mafia, I've started gaining experience as a GM.
I think I'm actually best suited as a GM in forum mafia, because I like having a lot of roles to give out and I prefer the roles to be well planned.
I hope you will all consider joining the 11-player love-themed mafia game I'm writing now, which includes the roles of
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The Bachelor
Godfather
Mafia
Sheriff
Deputy
Cupid
Spy
Matchmaker

ANYWAY, about this game... I do buy into what RedSun and Keirador have said, that things can be more dangerous now that it's only 3 town to 2 scum--scum only has to get one person to join them if they vote as a block. That's why I don't think I will change my voting. I am going for willie then I'm going for Telleo--I don't want to give scum a chance to convince me of something else. Dwiltse wrote some great posts, including one long one that outlines why willie is biggest scum-read and Telleo is second biggest scum-read. Telleo has written some good stuff too, but I don't feel that she sufficiently defended against Dwiltse.
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Re: Fable Mafia 11: The Zeppo Day 6

Postby Telleo » 20 Aug 2018, 03:07

sinnybee wrote:ANYWAY, about this game... I do buy into what RedSun and Keirador have said, that things can be more dangerous now that it's only 3 town to 2 scum--scum only has to get one person to join them if they vote as a block. That's why I don't think I will change my voting. I am going for willie then I'm going for Telleo--I don't want to give scum a chance to convince me of something else. Dwiltse wrote some great posts, including one long one that outlines why willie is biggest scum-read and Telleo is second biggest scum-read. Telleo has written some good stuff too, but I don't feel that she sufficiently defended against Dwiltse.


If you are town, and this is your attitude, then the town has already lost. If Willie's scum, then tomorrow you WILL be the one person voting alongside scum to kill me.

You need to dig more into your attitude that I haven't adequately defended against Dwilt. I put out a long page of responses, and called Dwilt out specifically to answer them. He never did. What more am I to do with that? There's been no case actually leveled against me, just a load of "Telleo's good at being scum." Not one. Single. Fucking. Accusation. Of an actual. Fucking. Thing. That I've done this game that makes someone think I might be scum. You need to listen to Keir. He's literally the only person EVER to peg me as scum, and he's done so in almost every game I've ever been scum (some more successfully than others), and he's telling you that this doesn't feel like Scum Telleo. But sure, walk blindly to your grave tomorrow in spite of that.
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Re: Fable Mafia 11: The Zeppo Day 6

Postby Telleo » 20 Aug 2018, 03:09

FWIW, assuming Willie's scum and Keir's town, both things I currently am inclined to believe, I fully expect us to lynch Willie tonight, watch Keir get NK'd as the only town who currently doesn't have a completely unfounded scum read of me, and then waltz to my mislynch the day after for a scum victory.
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Re: Fable Mafia 11: The Zeppo Day 6

Postby Telleo » 20 Aug 2018, 03:09

Think you're scum read is actually founded on something? Fight me. It's not.
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Re: Fable Mafia 11: The Zeppo Day 6

Postby sjg11 » 20 Aug 2018, 20:49

As the day ends, it becomes clear that willie23 is fated to die.

The Vigil appears behind him, holding a large cleaver.

As you read willie his last rights, he accepts his fate with a weary shrug and feebly protests his innocence.

The Vigil cleaves off his head.

At this point you notice a smirk from both Keirador and RedSun. Sinnybee and Telleo are swiftly disposed of, they were no match for the two remaining members of the Sisterhood.

Willie23 was a Citizen of Sunnydale and a Not-Zombie.

Congratulations to Keirador and RedSun, who fully win Fable Mafia 11. UFO Fever also receives a partial win.

https://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=316&t=58385
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