Tribal Mafia Thread D3

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Re: Tribal Mafia Thread D3

Postby kimpossible » 29 Jun 2018, 14:17

nanooktheeskimo wrote:Like, FYPOV, if UFO is scum and isn't lying about his role, then you're inviting both town clears to be NKed. That seems like not a great idea.

Well, if he's scum and isn't lying and kills both you and Damon, that means he deliberately chose to kill one of our townclears and is obviously scum. That seems pretty good.
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Re: Tribal Mafia Thread D3

Postby Nanook » 29 Jun 2018, 14:20

kimbyrle wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:Like, FYPOV, if UFO is scum and isn't lying about his role, then you're inviting both town clears to be NKed. That seems like not a great idea.

Well, if he's scum and isn't lying and kills both you and Damon, that means he deliberately chose to kill one of our townclears and is obviously scum. That seems pretty good.

Hmm. Ok, that's fair. Two kills for a scum player still isn't good.
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Re: Tribal Mafia Thread D3

Postby kimpossible » 29 Jun 2018, 14:32

nanooktheeskimo wrote:
kimbyrle wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:Like, FYPOV, if UFO is scum and isn't lying about his role, then you're inviting both town clears to be NKed. That seems like not a great idea.

Well, if he's scum and isn't lying and kills both you and Damon, that means he deliberately chose to kill one of our townclears and is obviously scum. That seems pretty good.

Hmm. Ok, that's fair. Two kills for a scum player still isn't good.

I guess the only way I really see a downside here is if he's lying and gets, like, three kills.

A) He's town. He'll shoot me because he thinks I'm scum. Fine. Scum must choose between one of two townclears to kill. This becomes identical to point D below.
B) He's town. He decides maybe I'm not scum after all and kills Dwiltse who must be scum if UFO is not (this is assuming we've correctly lynched PD, and that we're not in a "Kim is an insane cop" or "Nanook was resurrected scum" scenario, both of which I don't know how to attempt to account for anyway).
C) He's scum and kills both townclears, he's obviously scum, we lynch him and win.
D) He's scum and kills [me or Dwiltse] plus a townclear. You or Damon go to F3 with only [Dwiltse or me] and UFO to evaluate.
E) He's scum and kills both me and Dwiltse. Fucking awesome. Win the game for us, my dude.
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Re: Tribal Mafia Thread D3

Postby kimpossible » 29 Jun 2018, 14:36

nanooktheeskimo wrote:If people were invested in this game still, I'd try to point out that it's probably a good sign of how you're not thinking about this game in a genuine town fashion. People don't seem interested in solving this game beyond "THIS IS MY SCUMREAD AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT" though, so not sure if there's a point to it.

And I'll take an apology for this if that logic makes any sense to you. I have thought about it. You know as well as I do that 2:1 is better than 3:1 at end game.
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Re: Tribal Mafia Thread D3

Postby kimpossible » 29 Jun 2018, 14:38

kimbyrle wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:If people were invested in this game still, I'd try to point out that it's probably a good sign of how you're not thinking about this game in a genuine town fashion. People don't seem interested in solving this game beyond "THIS IS MY SCUMREAD AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT" though, so not sure if there's a point to it.

And I'll take an apology for this if that logic makes any sense to you. I have thought about it. You know as well as I do that 2:1 is better than 3:1 at end game.

Not to mention that this is 100% premised on PD flipping scum. If PD flips scum, and I'm scum who isn't thinking about this in a genuine town fashion, then why the fuck am I handing a townie a gun and saying "SHOOT ME"?
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Re: Tribal Mafia Thread D3

Postby Nanook » 29 Jun 2018, 15:04

kimbyrle wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:If people were invested in this game still, I'd try to point out that it's probably a good sign of how you're not thinking about this game in a genuine town fashion. People don't seem interested in solving this game beyond "THIS IS MY SCUMREAD AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT" though, so not sure if there's a point to it.

And I'll take an apology for this if that logic makes any sense to you. I have thought about it. You know as well as I do that 2:1 is better than 3:1 at end game.

Yeah, not really? I mean, marginally, sure, but I don't really buy into that too much. Really depends on context and who the 3 or 4 players are. For example, the Fable 9 game where shadow was scum waiting out Conq/smith/towncleared justy at MYLO (possibly before your time, not sure?)...conq and smith figured out each other, and that's what lost shadow the game. If she'd killed conq or smith, maybe it would've ended the same, but there wouldn't have been a hallelujah moment like there ended up being, cause justy was scumreading...I think smith, but I forget now, it's been awhile. Anyways, my point is that sure, broad strokes rule of thumb 3/1 is better than 2/1, but it depends a lot on context.

kimbyrle wrote:
kimbyrle wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:If people were invested in this game still, I'd try to point out that it's probably a good sign of how you're not thinking about this game in a genuine town fashion. People don't seem interested in solving this game beyond "THIS IS MY SCUMREAD AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT" though, so not sure if there's a point to it.

And I'll take an apology for this if that logic makes any sense to you. I have thought about it. You know as well as I do that 2:1 is better than 3:1 at end game.

Not to mention that this is 100% premised on PD flipping scum. If PD flips scum, and I'm scum who isn't thinking about this in a genuine town fashion, then why the fuck am I handing a townie a gun and saying "SHOOT ME"?

If PD is your scumbuddy, then scumKim almost HAS to say that (anyone that would be scumbuddies with PD has to, in fact, except for UFO since he's the vig claim), cause it's weird for townKim not to. So that's pretty much NAI for me.
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Re: Tribal Mafia Thread D3

Postby Nanook » 29 Jun 2018, 15:08

This is also ignoring what FYPOV should be a nonzero chance that UFO lied about his role and it does lord knows what. It's relatively easy to just say "someone else got the idol, I don't know what happened!" since there isn't a clear and consensus town plan on who to give the idol to if PD flips red, so it doesn't automatically out him as lying. And vig is a fairly easy role to fake claim in this setup I think, since we wouldn't want to give him the idol early and by the time it's late he has room to maneuver (as he has now, in a scumUFO world).
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Re: Tribal Mafia Thread D3

Postby kimpossible » 29 Jun 2018, 15:16

Fine. I give up. You should know better than anyone here that every single thing about my meta has to have become a useless pile of burning wreckage in order for me to be the risk-taking cop-claiming power wolf who would fit your narrative, but apparently you don't see that because I'm the person you've spent the most time evaluating today while UFO gets to float along never committing to anything and get a "tonally townie" read or something, I guess.

I'll give you the idol if PD flips scum and really hope I'm killed because I'm very tired of defending myself against this tortured narrative.
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Re: Tribal Mafia Thread D3

Postby Nanook » 29 Jun 2018, 15:24

kimbyrle wrote:Fine. I give up. You should know better than anyone here that every single thing about my meta has to have become a useless pile of burning wreckage in order for me to be the risk-taking cop-claiming power wolf who would fit your narrative, but apparently you don't see that because I'm the person you've spent the most time evaluating today while UFO gets to float along never committing to anything and get a "tonally townie" read or something, I guess.

I'll give you the idol if PD flips scum and really hope I'm killed because I'm very tired of defending myself against this tortured narrative.

I’m not giving UFO a pass at all. Other people are putting in the work there, I don’t have much to add—I think there’s a very good chance he’s scum, that’s why I’m not comfortable with him having the idol.

I’m looking at you in part because I’ve had some heebie jeebies reading along through D2 and wanted to explore them, and in part because nobody else was lookin at you so I wanted to see what would happen if I did.

Frankly, I’m a little appalled at the “HOW DARE YOU CONSIDER THIS” response I’ve received. Exploring hitherto unexplored angles in a game where town has been an utter failure thus far shouldn’t be met with scorn and derision.


I will also say that the meta defense works a lot better when it’s not you making it.
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Re: Tribal Mafia Thread D3

Postby kimpossible » 29 Jun 2018, 15:35

I think Damon is the only one giving you the "HOW DARE YOU" response and that's... that's just Damon, as far as I can tell. Dwiltse's has been more "Maybe but seems less likely and definitely not today," while UFO has gone from "This doesn't seem likely" to "Maybe you're right."

And I bring up the meta defense because you should be the one thinking about it. Damon doesn't know my history. Neither does UFO. And you are in a better position than even Dwiltse to know what my level of acceptable risk tolerance is, and what I would have had to accept as "tolerable risk" at the point in the game when I claimed cop, under the game conditions that I would have.

I'm also legit surprised to hear "other people are putting in the work there" in reference to considering UFO as scum, since your theory of the game lately has seemed to be "nobody is looking at the cases."
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