Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D4

Moderators: Zoomzip, Telleo, bkbkbk, condude1, sjg11

Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - N0

Postby ExiledAtHome » 14 Jan 2018, 02:56

Zoomzip wrote:
ExiledAtHome wrote:Sort of smacks of performance, knowing I wasn't actually suggesting immunity voting, and yet really wanting everyone to see your reaction to my first sentence anyway.



Cool, early read, performative = deceptive = scummy. You should probably vote that.


I'm not typically a whimsical voter. Initial observation of something somewhat scummy potentially is not going to drive a red vote by me. I need to develop a firm read on someone before I vote. Maybe not your style, but that's how I approach the game. Endless red votes are tough to track, and makes accountability difficult to enforce.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby kimpossible » 14 Jan 2018, 02:56

nanooktheeskimo wrote:Yes, in LYLO reveals should be made.

BUT, they should not be trusted blindly. It IS possible for the cop or (especially) the doc to have been lynched or NKed already, and therefore scum can safely false claim. I would assume a scum counterclaim anyways, but that still gives us a dipole which is a good thing. So yeah, I thought about that scenario, and it just doesn't give us 100% certainty that the player claiming is cleared, even without a counterclaim.

Why would you assume a scum counterclaim? If a dipole is always beneficial for town, why would scum give us one?
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby Zoomzip » 14 Jan 2018, 02:56

ExiledAtHome wrote:Hah, ok, clueless townie? Thanks, bud! The rules state that day/night phases continue until GM posts otherwise. It doesn't say anything about day starts. The thread was unlocked and Telleo said the day would start at 12pm PST, so it seemed pretty reasonable to start posting.


Sure. It was Night 0. The GM had not posted to indicate that it wasn't night 0. You posted anyways. You posted during Night 0. When you aren't allowed to post.

Now, I appreciate that you think it was totally cool. And maybe you are totally sang-froid scum about this. But... I don't think so. I think if you were scum you would have checked with your own chat or just simply avoided taking the risk.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - N0

Postby Nanook » 14 Jan 2018, 02:57

Zoomzip wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:It's been a bit since we played. Are you back to your vote early vote often ways? I seem to recall you were trying a new approach, but perhaps it didn't stick.


Not voting early sucked. I ended up forgetting to vote at all in D1. I want to vote. Trying to decide between you and Parabellum right now.

You are at least somewhat engaging and poking at me with a stick. Parabellum is just toodling around going "Sure, he probably would have checked with his scum chums, but it is probably NAI." Kim is potentially making a read on me. SJG is NAI at this point.

Hmmmmm...

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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby Parabellum » 14 Jan 2018, 02:57

kimbyrle wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:Yes, in LYLO reveals should be made.

BUT, they should not be trusted blindly. It IS possible for the cop or (especially) the doc to have been lynched or NKed already, and therefore scum can safely false claim. I would assume a scum counterclaim anyways, but that still gives us a dipole which is a good thing. So yeah, I thought about that scenario, and it just doesn't give us 100% certainty that the player claiming is cleared, even without a counterclaim.

Why would you assume a scum counterclaim? If a dipole is always beneficial for town, why would scum give us one?


Bc in lylo the alternative is to hand town the win, because they only have one cop to trust.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - N0

Postby Parabellum » 14 Jan 2018, 02:58

nanooktheeskimo wrote:
Zoomzip wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:It's been a bit since we played. Are you back to your vote early vote often ways? I seem to recall you were trying a new approach, but perhaps it didn't stick.


Not voting early sucked. I ended up forgetting to vote at all in D1. I want to vote. Trying to decide between you and Parabellum right now.

You are at least somewhat engaging and poking at me with a stick. Parabellum is just toodling around going "Sure, he probably would have checked with his scum chums, but it is probably NAI." Kim is potentially making a read on me. SJG is NAI at this point.

Hmmmmm...

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This is fantastic.

I'm just not sure if I'm the homicidal maniac in this analogy... :shock:
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby Nanook » 14 Jan 2018, 03:01

kimbyrle wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:Yes, in LYLO reveals should be made.

BUT, they should not be trusted blindly. It IS possible for the cop or (especially) the doc to have been lynched or NKed already, and therefore scum can safely false claim. I would assume a scum counterclaim anyways, but that still gives us a dipole which is a good thing. So yeah, I thought about that scenario, and it just doesn't give us 100% certainty that the player claiming is cleared, even without a counterclaim.

Why would you assume a scum counterclaim? If a dipole is always beneficial for town, why would scum give us one?

Think about the alternative--at best (from scum POV), there's already a dipole (if it's 2v1 LYLO, I'd like to think we can at least catch one scum before we hit LYLO!). If the Doc and Cop are both around, then the scum HAS to counterclaim.

So yeah, there might not be a CC at LYLO, if only one of doc/cop is alive. It depends on the exact players and who scum thinks they have a better shot at winning out over. But, if I were scum, I'd come into LYLO and immediately and claim Doc or Cop. Let them counterclaim me if they're alive, and if they're dead I get a boost towards winning.

My main point is really that we can't give hard town clears to a doc or cop claim at LYLO, cause there's too much room for shenanigans.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby Nanook » 14 Jan 2018, 03:02

Parabellum wrote:
kimbyrle wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:Yes, in LYLO reveals should be made.

BUT, they should not be trusted blindly. It IS possible for the cop or (especially) the doc to have been lynched or NKed already, and therefore scum can safely false claim. I would assume a scum counterclaim anyways, but that still gives us a dipole which is a good thing. So yeah, I thought about that scenario, and it just doesn't give us 100% certainty that the player claiming is cleared, even without a counterclaim.

Why would you assume a scum counterclaim? If a dipole is always beneficial for town, why would scum give us one?


Bc in lylo the alternative is to hand town the win, because they only have one cop to trust.

This is also true--if cop claims at LYLO, scum has to counterclaim, or risk cop having game winning knowledge.

Really though, the point for me is that claims at LYLO can't be blindly trusted.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - N0

Postby Nanook » 14 Jan 2018, 03:03

Parabellum wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:
Zoomzip wrote:
Not voting early sucked. I ended up forgetting to vote at all in D1. I want to vote. Trying to decide between you and Parabellum right now.

You are at least somewhat engaging and poking at me with a stick. Parabellum is just toodling around going "Sure, he probably would have checked with his scum chums, but it is probably NAI." Kim is potentially making a read on me. SJG is NAI at this point.

Hmmmmm...

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This is fantastic.

I'm just not sure if I'm the homicidal maniac in this analogy... :shock:

They didn't have a pointed stick one, closest I could get is from the same sketch. I think in this analogy I'm the hypothetical pointed stick man, you're the guy with a bushel of raspberries, and ZZ is John Cleese.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - N0

Postby kimpossible » 14 Jan 2018, 03:04

ExiledAtHome wrote:
Zoomzip wrote:
ExiledAtHome wrote:Sort of smacks of performance, knowing I wasn't actually suggesting immunity voting, and yet really wanting everyone to see your reaction to my first sentence anyway.



Cool, early read, performative = deceptive = scummy. You should probably vote that.


I'm not typically a whimsical voter. Initial observation of something somewhat scummy potentially is not going to drive a red vote by me. I need to develop a firm read on someone before I vote. Maybe not your style, but that's how I approach the game. Endless red votes are tough to track, and makes accountability difficult to enforce.

EAH, while I also don’t particularly care for the “vote on a whim” sort of approach, you don’t have to worry about tracking the votes, and frequent voting doesn’t affect accountability. That’s what the Vote Tabulator is for.

That said, we don’t seem to be set up as a game there yet.
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