Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D4

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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - N0

Postby Nanook » 14 Jan 2018, 02:31

ExiledAtHome wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:Ok, so the obvious to start:

@Doc and Cop, do NOT reveal.

The ONLY scenario the cop should reveal is if a) he has enough clears/guilty's to win the game, or b) he's about to be lynched (that way we hopefully swing the lynch off him and buy one more investigation).

I don't really see enough upside to the doc revealing, even on the eve of a lynch, but that's a discussion we can have (it should be a short one though, cause we have better stuff to worry about).

This should be obvious, but I want it out there anyways.


Blocker, go ahead and reveal at your leisure :D


Yup, gotta be real selective with the cop reveal (since doctor can only protect him that first night after reveal), and I also see no upside to the doctor ever revealing.

Additionally, I see no reason for us to ever vote to end the day early. Why end discussion?

Finally, thoughts on whether we should be voting for who doctor protects (sort of like the immunity votes we did in Civ)?

My gut tells me it's probably much better to just have the doctor use his best judgment, and thereby not telegraph to scum who to avoid on NKs, but I haven't given this a ton of thought. Anyone have a rebuttal to that thought process?

I much prefer to leave it in the doctor's hands--kinda removes a big chunk of their utility if we're giving the scum a list of who they can safely NK, AND it means that if the Cop reveals late game, the scum will know whether he can be protected that night or not whereas if the doc is left to his own devices the scum will have to guess.


The only argument I can see for the doc revealing would be if he's about to be lynched, since we know the doc is a town-guaranteed role, and we can swing the lynch elsewhere to make the scum waste a NK on him. But to me, that doesn't outweigh making scum guess whether the doc is still in the game or not, so I would say no doc reveals at all, and if we mislynch you we'll give you a nice apology in the AAR.


Agreed on no End Day votes. They are decidedly anti-town the way they work here, so I see zero reason for us to use them.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby Nanook » 14 Jan 2018, 02:34

Zoomzip wrote:The general call for informational security is well made. However:

nanooktheeskimo wrote:The ONLY scenario the cop should reveal is if a) he has enough clears/guilty's to win the game, or b) he's about to be lynched (that way we hopefully swing the lynch off him and buy one more investigation).


This is wrong. Reveals should be reconsidered in LYLO and after a successful vote. Un cc'ed roles clear townies.

For consideration: EAH > Rand to be town. Early read, pretty decisive on my part. Reasoning for EAH does not apply to SJG11.

@NanookTheEskimo: What do you think about that? EAH is town right?

Yes, in LYLO reveals should be made.

BUT, they should not be trusted blindly. It IS possible for the cop or (especially) the doc to have been lynched or NKed already, and therefore scum can safely false claim. I would assume a scum counterclaim anyways, but that still gives us a dipole which is a good thing. So yeah, I thought about that scenario, and it just doesn't give us 100% certainty that the player claiming is cleared, even without a counterclaim.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby Nanook » 14 Jan 2018, 02:35

nanooktheeskimo wrote:
Zoomzip wrote:The general call for informational security is well made. However:

nanooktheeskimo wrote:The ONLY scenario the cop should reveal is if a) he has enough clears/guilty's to win the game, or b) he's about to be lynched (that way we hopefully swing the lynch off him and buy one more investigation).


This is wrong. Reveals should be reconsidered in LYLO and after a successful vote. Un cc'ed roles clear townies.

For consideration: EAH > Rand to be town. Early read, pretty decisive on my part. Reasoning for EAH does not apply to SJG11.

@NanookTheEskimo: What do you think about that? EAH is town right?

Yes, in LYLO reveals should be made.

BUT, they should not be trusted blindly. It IS possible for the cop or (especially) the doc to have been lynched or NKed already, and therefore scum can safely false claim. I would assume a scum counterclaim anyways, but that still gives us a dipole which is a good thing. So yeah, I thought about that scenario, and it just doesn't give us 100% certainty that the player claiming is cleared, even without a counterclaim.

And I think I'm missing a leap with the EAH is probably town. Why is EAH probably town? Can you spell that out a little better for me, por favor?
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby Zoomzip » 14 Jan 2018, 02:37

nanooktheeskimo wrote:And I think I'm missing a leap with the EAH is probably town. Why is EAH probably town? Can you spell that out a little better for me, por favor?


I could, and I have reasoning, but I'd rather work it with you for a bit, because ultimately reads > mechanics, no? And that's more interesting (as is the fact that you are not making this read).

What is unique about EAH that might indicate he's not scum (or if he is, he is gutsy risk taking scum)?
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - N0

Postby ExiledAtHome » 14 Jan 2018, 02:39

Zoomzip wrote:
ExiledAtHome wrote:Finally, thoughts on whether we should be voting for who doctor protects (sort of like the immunity votes we did in Civ)?


Anyone else want to second this idea? EAH, work it through -- what is the town advantage to doing this? Oh wait, you do...

ExiledAtHome wrote:My gut tells me it's probably much better to just have the doctor use his best judgment, and thereby not telegraph to scum who to avoid on NKs, but I haven't given this a ton of thought. Anyone have a rebuttal to that thought process?


I think your gut is probably correct at this.


Oh, no, you're not one of those stream of consciousness commenters (like Crunkus) who will quote sections of a comment as you go, and write independent responses to those sections, even if later sections of the quoted comment render your initial reactions irrelevant, are you?

I mean, you just took two adjacent sentences of mine, and replied to the first as if you'd never even seen the second.

Sort of smacks of performance, knowing I wasn't actually suggesting immunity voting, and yet really wanting everyone to see your reaction to my first sentence anyway.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby Nanook » 14 Jan 2018, 02:40

Zoomzip wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:And I think I'm missing a leap with the EAH is probably town. Why is EAH probably town? Can you spell that out a little better for me, por favor?


I could, and I have reasoning, but I'd rather work it with you for a bit, because ultimately reads > mechanics, no? And that's more interesting (as is the fact that you are not making this read).

What is unique about EAH that might indicate he's not scum (or if he is, he is gutsy risk taking scum)?

What, cause he posted early in the thread? I guess that could be something...but mostly it looks NAI to me.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby Parabellum » 14 Jan 2018, 02:41

Zoomzip wrote:
For consideration: EAH > Rand to be town. Early read, pretty decisive on my part. Reasoning for EAH does not apply to SJG11.

@NanookTheEskimo: What do you think about that? EAH is town right?


Nice to meet you, ZZ! I don't understand this part of your post. What does "EAH > Rand to be town." mean? "rand" = "random"??

Also, Nanook, cause, you know, he's misrepresenting my position and isn't very solvy.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby kimpossible » 14 Jan 2018, 02:43

sjg11 because I have Fable trauma.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - D1

Postby Zoomzip » 14 Jan 2018, 02:44

nanooktheeskimo wrote:What, cause he posted early in the thread? I guess that could be something...but mostly it looks NAI to me.


He posted before the GM opened the thread. And supposedly wasn't sure if he was right or not. Given the rules state:

The Rules wrote:The days and nights continue until the GM posts otherwise.


So, if EAH is scum, two things occurred: EAH decided to ask the thread instead of his scum chums whether it was ok to post and EAH decided it was cool to risk a modkill to post about posting. I suppose that's possible.

Or...

EAH is a enthusiastic but potentially clueless townie.

I lean to the latter.

PPE @Parabellum: Yeah, I have EAH as more likely than not to be town.
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Re: Mafia CLXVIII: Normal Mafia - N0

Postby Zoomzip » 14 Jan 2018, 02:44

ExiledAtHome wrote:Sort of smacks of performance, knowing I wasn't actually suggesting immunity voting, and yet really wanting everyone to see your reaction to my first sentence anyway.



Cool, early read, performative = deceptive = scummy. You should probably vote that.
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