Mafia CLXVI: Improvised Mafia Day 2

[sjg11]

Alright my role has NO tracking abilities. Thus me seeing Parabellum shaken by fear last night is irrelevant info. If that info had been reliable than PB would not have killed Telleo thus SF did and is Mafia. So the Mafia could be either of you.

But it isn't so it's irrelevant. SF, what's your role and what did you do with it last night?

[Parabellum]

Alright my role has NO tracking abilities. Thus me seeing Parabellum shaken by fear last night is irrelevant info. If that info had been reliable than PB would not have killed Telleo thus SF did and is Mafia. So the Mafia could be either of you.

But it isn't so it's irrelevant. SF, what's your role and what did you do with it last night?

Sorry, noob question -

What does tracking mean?

[Parabellum]

Also, since we're doing reveals, I'm the "loremaster". So I "do research" and get information at the end of each night. Last night the information I was "found" was that the first post had significance we hadn't really noticed yet.

And, for what it's worth, yes, someone was watching me last night.

[Parabellum]

You know, the thing about my stalker last night was that they left a knife in my door. So I'm not sure I'm buying that that role clears you...

[shadowface]

Sjg, I don't understand what you're saying your role is. You follow people around without doing anything or learning anything? That's not really a role.

I guess there's no harm in claiming roles now since it's LYLO. I'm a "revenant", which means even if I die I can continue posting in the thread. I wouldn't get my lynch vote back or count towards the town's numbers, but I can weigh in on stuff.

I wish more people had joined. The roles might actually be more relevant in that case. Because I'm not going to get a chance to use this but I was hoping that I'd be able to sass off to whoever had killed me

[shadowface]

You know, the thing about my stalker last night was that they left a knife in my door. So I'm not sure I'm buying that that role clears you...

Seriously can you explain this role a bit more sjg? Why did you even use it?

[Parabellum]

Finally, the nanook vote. Yeah it was dumb. I forgot both when the deadline was and that I had voted for nanook. Like my nanook vote was a joke vote made at the start of the Day... I completely forgot that it existed. I'll be honest though... that is an NAI moment as sjg as either alignment would NOT deliberately leave their vote on nanook in that situation. It's just a really dumb error.

fair enough, but I knew that would be your defense. It's an easy one to make. I mean, if you want towncred for townreading Nanook, you can always just kill him off and say later, "oh, I forgot to change my vote". I am well aware that my scumread on you "is flawed" (to quote sf), but I don't see a better scum case from anyone else. It's such a short game, that I'm working with what I have, just like Nanook was in his (imo) bad semantics argument.

And Parabellum, here was my logic on nanook:
Nanook said that he asked about the ratios. This is a question where, if he was Mafia, he would have already known the answer. If nanook asked condude that question... then nanook MUST be town. There is NO POINT asking the GM a question you know the answer to when you are Mafia.

Not buying this, either. SF already said earlier that this could have been perfectly legitimate "fake" scum-hunting. For such an elementary question as ratios, I see no reason for scum not to fake ask the gm those numbers. It's obviously important information, and all of us knew that the ratio was hidden except from scum. So the question is really, "why wouldn't scum-Nanook ask about the ratios"?

But this is beside the point. becuase Nanook did not ask about the ratios. So the fact that you are saying him asking about the ratios clued you in to his towniness means this is not the real reason you townread him. Did you forget the real question he asked? Was that so unimportant to you? I think you knew he was town before he ever started asking the gm questions.

He says here that we don't know the ratio, but never asks Condude for it:

Also I don't really get the game. Are there more rules than are in the original post?

And do Canadians all spell color wrong? Must be because of their continued subservience to the British Empire. At least they drive on the right side of the road.

Not all of them, just some of them.

I think part of the point of the game is to not get it. All you really know for sure is your alignment and your role, if you have one. The exact rules are a mystery, the ratio of scum to mafia is a mystery, the win conditions are a mystery. We're playing by the seat of our pants and flying blind, basically.

Here is the real question he asked:

Ok, so I'm reasonably to moderately sure of parabellum as town. I asked the GM if the win conditions were based on a running tally or if they were only counted at end of day/night, and he answered that it was a running tally. He answered in black though, so, ya know, beware of that I guess.

Which means that I don't think Para is scum, because if he was Iggs the game should have ended with him joining, as that would have made it 1:1.

I encourage other players to ask condude the same question. Either you get the same answer, and we can give Para and me half-clears, or you get a different answer and we can assume that the GM is full of it. Either way, useful information to have!

Then condude comes into the thread with this:

Alright, I've had several questions about this. The first player would not win the game if his or her VC were reached. Otherwise, there is no way for the game to progress beyond one player (cultists reach parity automatically if they're the first player, townies win on the spot if they're the first player).

So, more than one person has asked condude a question about the ratios and the VCs. The "I've had" suggests this was done in Private through messaging and condude, as a general rule, does not respond to in-thread questions anyway.

So, who was asking these questions?
Well I wasn't so that rules me out.

Telleo's posts on the topic came AFTER condude's clarification so she wasn't asking questions in this area.

Leaving you, nook and SF as possible questioners. Now SF as Mafia would NOT know the answer to the question so could easily have asked it to condude without it being indicative but BOTH you and nanook knew that the rule was as condude later clarified if you were Mafia. So only as town would you ask the GM about it.

So, overall, this moment seems to INDICATE that both you and nanook are town thus that SF is scum if read on its own.

sorry, I don't really understand this logic, but it seems to be based on the same premise that I'm questioning above, namely, that mafia has no motivation to ask the GM this question. I don't agree with that.

[shadowface]

But this is beside the point. becuase Nanook did not ask about the ratios. So the fact that you are saying him asking about the ratios clued you in to his towniness means this is not the real reason you townread him. Did you forget the real question he asked? Was that so unimportant to you? I think you knew he was town before he ever started asking the gm questions.

Yeah sjg, nanook very clearly wasn't asking about the ratios. You're kind of twisting what happened.

But anyways, like I said earlier, this isn't unheard-of scum play at all. The scum motive is that you can report back to the town and say 'Hey guys, I checked with the GM and ____". Makes scum look like they care. What you're saying here is like saying that someone's towncleared because they were scumhunting, and only the town would care about finding the scum so they must be town! Acting is what the scum does, and being right about nanook on this is either you getting lucky or you knowing that he was town already.

[shadowface]

Ok, well, this is easy.

SJG said that Nanook's questions to the GM made him a lock town, but I don't see how that is the case at all. Strike 1.

SJG claimed he was townreading Nanook, but left his vote on him. Strike 2.

My theory is that SJG wanted towncred for townreading Nanook. That only works if Nanook is the one who dies, so he left his vote on him.

SJG

So Para, I agree that sjg's vote yesterday looks really weird. But I think a more probable explanation than him trying explicitly to gain towncred is that he just honestly didn't care. I've been impaled for something similar as scum before, in... EOD1 Men at Arms I think? I just didn't care enough about who got killed in a town-town lynch and I got sloppy and let it show. If you're town and you have a serious townread you think, what can I do to protect them? If you're scum you actually don't care if they die, and if they're going down at EOD your concern is fake. Also, it's actually kind of nice to have your townreads lynched when you're scum because then you get the credit (like you're saying) and you also have a townread killed off (it's kind of hard to describe this benefit, but basically when you are scum you need to make townreads but they become a bit of a hassle because you can't go after them easily. So if they die it's a good thing for you.) The underlying motivation to move his vote if sjg is town is so much higher than if he's scum, where it's a negative motivation.

So I agree this is scummy - I don't know if it was explicit on sjg's part but even if what he's saying is partially true it would make sense that he wouldn't really care enough to change his vote if he's scum. It definitely fits with a pattern of insincerity that I'm seeing in sjg's game here.

[shadowface]

sjg11

I'm actually pretty confident in this for having 17 pages to work with. Para's playing like he did in Galaxy Quest (though this time it's actually helping me! ), and sjg's coming across as insincere on a few fronts. If this is scum Para I'll be pretty impressed with his play and I'll never trust him again.