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Mafia CLXIII: Insider - Game Over -- Insider Wins!

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2017, 18:37
by Zoomzip
::Phase 1::
Roster: SJG11 \\ Fuddin \\ Condude1 \\ Beavis \\ Telleo \\ Kierador \\ JoeHoya06
Link to Rules: Here
Clock: Here (May be inappropriate)

Re: Insider: Phase 0

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2017, 23:04
by Zoomzip
\\ INSIDER

\\ PHASE 1 -- ESTABLISH LINK


::Commons will have 48 hours to identify/validate/vouchsafe the pass phrase known to the Master. Master will be able to provide responses of Yes | No | I Don't Know with single/solitary/lonely punctuation::

::If the pass phrase is not identified by the time Phase 1 ends/terminates/retires, all players lose/disconnect/mourn::

\\MASTER assigned to FUDDIN

\\CURRENT DEADLINE: 2300GMT 6 AUGUST 2017

GO

Re: Insider: Phase 1

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2017, 23:18
by Telleo
Well.

Finding the phrase, given 48 hours, shouldn't be too difficult, I don't think. I'm more concerned with how we'll identify the person who knows the phrase. I have a few half formed thoughts, but for now, I think our easiest route to learning the phrase is to play this like charades - step one, we need the number of words, then we go word-by-word to the ID. To that end...



ARE THERE AN EVEN NUMBER OF WORDS IN THE PHRASE?

DOES THE PHRASE CONTAIN FIVE OR FEWER WORDS?

DOES THE PHRASE CONTAIN NECESSARY PUNCTUATION?

Re: Insider: Phase 1

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2017, 23:29
by Telleo
Also if the phrase isn't "Great Wall of Telleo" I'll be upset.

Re: Insider: Phase 1

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2017, 23:40
by condude1
Telleo wrote:Well.

Finding the phrase, given 48 hours, shouldn't be too difficult, I don't think. I'm more concerned with how we'll identify the person who knows the phrase. I have a few half formed thoughts, but for now, I think our easiest route to learning the phrase is to play this like charades - step one, we need the number of words, then we go word-by-word to the ID. To that end...



ARE THERE AN EVEN NUMBER OF WORDS IN THE PHRASE?

DOES THE PHRASE CONTAIN FIVE OR FEWER WORDS?

DOES THE PHRASE CONTAIN NECESSARY PUNCTUATION?


This seems like a horrible idea. It gives the insider a numerical method of pushing us towards the right answer without making themselves known. How do you intend to find out who doesn't know the phrase if everyone's just asking how many words are in it?

You mention that finding the insider's the hard part, and then recommend a method that does nothing to help solve that problem. Not a great start from Telleo.

Does the phrase/word reference living organisms?
Does the word/phrase reference man-made structures?
Does the word/phrase reference war/fighting/violence?

Re: Insider: Phase 1

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2017, 23:42
by condude1
This way, at least, if we're having a hard time coming to the right answer, the Insider will be forced to guide us in the right direction.

Does the phrase/word reference living organisms?
Does the word/phrase reference man-made structures?
Does the word/phrase reference war/fighting/violence?


When I say reference, I don't necessarily mean that it uses those words. "To kill 2 birds with 1 stone", for example, would fall under #1 and #3, but not #2.

Re: Insider: Phase 1

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2017, 23:50
by Keirador
We lose equally if we either don't guess the word or don't guess the Insider, right? So we have no incentive to even try to guess the phrase without the Insider's help. I'm sure we could guess it alone, which is the primary reason why we shouldn't even try. Better to play chicken and force the Insider to tip their hand at least a little.

Re: Insider: Phase 1

PostPosted: 04 Aug 2017, 23:52
by Keirador
Agree with condude that I don't love Telleo's opening of "the hard part is finding the Insider, now let's get to work solving the puzzle," but condude then you go and do the same thing, no?

Re: Insider: Phase 1

PostPosted: 05 Aug 2017, 00:01
by beavis
Odd that Telleo was quick to pass off finding the insider...

Would someone 50 years ago understand what the phrase means?

Re: Insider: Phase 1

PostPosted: 05 Aug 2017, 00:43
by condude1
Keirador wrote:Agree with condude that I don't love Telleo's opening of "the hard part is finding the Insider, now let's get to work solving the puzzle," but condude then you go and do the same thing, no?


I almost posted a follow-up explaining why my post is different. The way I'm asking questions is qualititative. If someone starts pinging the right questions to narrow down the phrase this way, we can get suspicious. For example, say it's a word, and the word is dynamite. If someone asks "Is it explosive?" out of the blue, that's a massive red flag. This means that the insider has to play a game of chicken, giving us as little information as possible, while making sure we solve the puzzle.

Telleo's method is so terrible because we get no information about the insider. Her questions are over/unders effectively. What do we learn if the phrase has fewer than 5 words? If it has more than 5 words? Nothing either way.

The reason we can't just do nothing to solve this and let the insider guide us is the following rule:
The Rules wrote:The GM reserves the right to award the game to the Insider if he feels a sufficient effort to guess the word or phrase was not made by the Commons.
. We need to make a sufficient effort after it. That's why my method is superior to Telleo's - we don't run afoul of this rule, and we give the insider enough rope to hang themselves.