Mafia CLXIII: Insider - Game Over -- Insider Wins!

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Re: Insider: Phase 2

Postby JoeHoya06 » 07 Aug 2017, 20:55

sjg11 wrote:No, you're not listening to Joe. Joe said he stated he had Google searched partly because he found it odd that you and Keirador hadn't noticed the phrase "apartment house" when you searched. And partly to show his working.


As a point of clarification, I did the search in the first place because I didn't know of any other common phrases that fit the bill; I then shared the link because I found it odd that they hadn't mentioned such prominent results after claiming to have searched. Not sure if that's what you meant, SJG.

As for a vote? I really don't know; I'm on the record as scumreading Keirador for most of the game, but looking back at Condude's approach in the context of "what does this mean if he's The Insider" is throwing up red flags. Hopefully something crystallizes one way or another.
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Re: Insider: Phase 2

Postby Keirador » 07 Aug 2017, 21:54

sjg11 wrote:Telleo... no sure. Keirador, could you go into more detail as to why Telleo's questions are town indicative? Not sure I'm with you on that yet.

So assume I'm town. This is a safe assumption for this purpose because if I'm not, then Telleo certainly is town anyway, so you buy my argument.

Telleo has gotten a "Correct?" on "Apartment building." I'm convinced the phrase must be "apartment complex" because there's no other common phrase that close to "apartment building." I'd like to confirm this but do not want to actually say the phrase, because guessing the correct phrase ends the Phase and we're nowhere close to finding the Insider, plus I'm a man of whimsy, so I ask about the lyrics to a Postal Service song that contains the phrase "apartment complex." Fuddin' says NO, the phrase is not in the song. What the what? If it's not "apartment complex" then in what GD sense is "apartment building" close enough to merit a "Correct?" response? Maybe it's like "condominium building" or something? Let's get back to brass tacks, in what sense is "apartment building" actually close to the phrase? Does it share any words, do I have this totally wrong?

Hence my questions: Is the first word in the phrase "apartment," is the second word in the phrase "building," and my answers from Fuddin, "yes" and "no," respectively. Exactly what I DIDN'T want to hear because "apartment complex" is my only guess. So just to cover my bases in case I got a little tooooo whimsical with the Postal Service reference and somehow confused Fuddin, I write, not as a question but just as commentary, ". . . and it's not apartment complex. Hmm."

Enter Tellers. Tellers ignores the whimsical Postal Service question or overlooks it, and instead sees me ask "is the first word apartment, is the second word building," and then say out loud "so not apartment complex." She concludes that I've determined it's not apartment complex because of my latter two questions, and that I've misinterpreted the answer to be "it's NOT Apartment but IS building," and asks Fuddin directly if it's "apartment complex." If Telleo already knows the passphrase, then she knows my determination--that it isn't apartment complex--is completely correct, not a mistake. So even if she didn't follow my reasoning, she has no reason to "correct" me because she knows I'm right. Her instinct there should be "what did I miss that he knows that?" not "what did he miss that he thinks that?" This is fakeable, everything is, but I'd be astonished. By far the simpler answer is that she didn't know the passphrase and genuinely misunderstood what happened.

I'm not voting Telleo for any reason and if it seems Telleo is going down tomorrow I'll vote to kill Joe today to save her.
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Re: Insider: Phase 2

Postby Keirador » 07 Aug 2017, 21:58

SJG you seem to be proceeding from the assumption that the town was going to get to the answer without the Insider "sticking out their neck." Thread doesn't really bear this out. I had announced I'd be quitting and letting the chips fall where they may, condude said something similar. At that point, he and I had been the primary in-thread voices, having been joined recently by Joe and with beavis popping in right as we were both determining to lurk. If Joe is the Insider, he pretty much has to hope more people show up in the final 90 minutes or so, or that beavis figures it out himself (beavis announces he is also leaving shortly thereafter).

Actually read EOD with an eye toward the Insider being in-thread at the time, and it's much less a given that the town solves the puzzle.
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Re: Insider: Phase 2

Postby sjg11 » 07 Aug 2017, 23:16

Keirador wrote:SJG you seem to be proceeding from the assumption that the town was going to get to the answer without the Insider "sticking out their neck." Thread doesn't really bear this out. I had announced I'd be quitting and letting the chips fall where they may, condude said something similar. At that point, he and I had been the primary in-thread voices, having been joined recently by Joe and with beavis popping in right as we were both determining to lurk. If Joe is the Insider, he pretty much has to hope more people show up in the final 90 minutes or so, or that beavis figures it out himself (beavis announces he is also leaving shortly thereafter).

Actually read EOD with an eye toward the Insider being in-thread at the time, and it's much less a given that the town solves the puzzle.

1. Thanks on the Telleo issue, it was illuminating.
2. But Joe still had 90 minutes to try charadesing it before giving up and going for the phrase guess. If things still aren't happening slightly later on he can always then start going for guess the phrase. Like there was plenty of room for Joe, if he's the Insider, to try a more subtle approach before giving in and launching himself into the spotlight. Particularly it looked like beavis may have been in the thread and was clearly open to playing charades if necessary.
3. What are your condude-related thoughts?
4. Sjg is very tired, he had a long trip to and in Rome today (and then back from Rome to where he is staying). Sjg loves Rome but also loves sleep and his bed is calling to him now. Arrivederci! (I think that's goodbye?)
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Re: Insider: Phase 2

Postby beavis » 07 Aug 2017, 23:20

sjg11 wrote:Particularly it looked like beavis may have been in the thread and was clearly open to playing charades if necessary.


Yeah I was in the thread, and was online because I wanted to help us get the answer, and becasue it was 10pm here (much like it is 10:20pm for me now), and so was a good time for me to be around
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Re: Insider: Phase 2

Postby Keirador » 07 Aug 2017, 23:49

sjg the phase ends in like an hour. Whether condude is the Insider is way, way less relevant right now than coming to a determination on Joe. We don't get another chance to pick Joe, if he's the Insider and we vote "no" today, it's over and we lose.

I wanted to pick condude's brain a bit more about his googling process, but he ain't around and might not be before EOD.
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Re: Insider: Phase 2

Postby Keirador » 07 Aug 2017, 23:56

sjg wrote:2. But Joe still had 90 minutes to try charadesing it before giving up and going for the phrase guess. If things still aren't happening slightly later on he can always then start going for guess the phrase. Like there was plenty of room for Joe, if he's the Insider, to try a more subtle approach before giving in and launching himself into the spotlight. Particularly it looked like beavis may have been in the thread and was clearly open to playing charades if necessary.

Why bother charadesing when he's established this googling this as a legitimate way of finding the right answer? IF Joe is the Insider, look at this actual situation EOD. Try charadesing with who, the two active players who have already said they don't want to do that and aren't going to? Saying "particularly it looked like beavis may have been in the thread and was clearly open to playing charades" doesn't quite encompass the actual situation. That wasn't one possible path to getting the word amongst many, it was the only possibility left for scumJoe to get a townie to guess the phrase. I also don't know what specifically gave you the impression beavis was "clearly open" to charades. . . did I miss a post? That wasn't the impression I had in thread as someone there at the time.
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Re: Insider: Phase 2

Postby Keirador » 07 Aug 2017, 23:57

JoeHoya06 wrote:
As for a vote? I really don't know; I'm on the record as scumreading Keirador for most of the game, but looking back at Condude's approach in the context of "what does this mean if he's The Insider" is throwing up red flags. Hopefully something crystallizes one way or another.

Not gonna tell you what to do or anything, but if I were you I'd just vote "no."
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Re: Insider: Phase 2

Postby Keirador » 07 Aug 2017, 23:58

Welp, we've certainly discovered 24 hours is not enough time for a discussion phase. Do people understand the phase and quite possibly the game is about to end? Or am I missing something on my end?
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Re: Insider: Phase 2

Postby Keirador » 08 Aug 2017, 00:05

FWIW I'm voting "yes" on Joe being the Insidotron. I can see the case on condude, but I followed his reasoning the whole time. Pointing out that it was possible to mechanically solve doesn't mean he ever wanted to do that, and he militated against it. He just wanted to make the point that it was possible for town to solve that way without help and that we therefore shouldn't do it.
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