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Re: Walking Dead Mafia Game Thread D5

PostPosted: 17 May 2017, 12:43
by sjg11
Jack007 wrote:A dipole is a situation with two players where one of them is guaranteed to be Mafia and the other one is Town. Thus the relevance to the situation here.


It still makes no sense to me. The dipole in D4 was Sjg and me.

Again, who is "us" in "one of us"? And why should they get killed, when the dipole is Sjg/Jack?

I'm starting to doubt about either my or ZZ's logical thinking skills.
[/quote]
1. "Us" in that case is Zip and Telleo. And if they get killed then we have only three players left today rather than four. Basically it removes a voice from the town which is a pretty positive thing.
2. Well I've been doubting ZZ's logical thinking skills for years. ;) (I kid, Zip, I kid)

Re: Walking Dead Mafia Game Thread D5

PostPosted: 17 May 2017, 12:56
by Jack007
There's no night kill in even night's. Walkers will just feed by random corpse. Didn't you read that?

Re: Walking Dead Mafia Game Thread D5

PostPosted: 17 May 2017, 13:21
by sjg11
Jack007 wrote:There's no night kill in even night's. Walkers will just feed by random corpse. Didn't you read that?

The twist is in the night game. The walkers don’t just kill humans. They turn them into fellow walkers. So on odd nights instead of a night kill, there will be a conversion. On even nights, the walkers will just be feeding on random corpses so there will be no night kill and no conversions. The scum may have other powers in addition to the night kill. So after night one, the town will not know how many scum there are in the game.

This is the Section of the Rules that implies that there are night kills in this game. Although later on it says this:
During the night the walkers will decide who to attack (on odd nights). All players will use any powers they have (if they want to)

Which could imply that there are no night kills but could also imply that the Walkers can only Convert on odd-numbered nights.

Re: Walking Dead Mafia Game Thread D5

PostPosted: 17 May 2017, 13:31
by Jack007
sjg11 wrote:
Jack007 wrote:There's no night kill in even night's. Walkers will just feed by random corpse. Didn't you read that?

The twist is in the night game. The walkers don’t just kill humans. They turn them into fellow walkers. So on odd nights instead of a night kill, there will be a conversion. On even nights, the walkers will just be feeding on random corpses so there will be no night kill and no conversions. The scum may have other powers in addition to the night kill. So after night one, the town will not know how many scum there are in the game.

This is the Section of the Rules that implies that there are night kills in this game. Although later on it says this:
During the night the walkers will decide who to attack (on odd nights). All players will use any powers they have (if they want to)

Which could imply that there are no night kills but could also imply that the Walkers can only Convert on odd-numbered nights.


What is unclear with: "On even nights, the walkers will just be feeding on random corpses so there will be no night kill and no conversions." ?

The other powers might be powers that have been kept from human powers, after conversions. It is not possible that there are more walkers than one, actually, because it would be 2:2 then, which means game over.

Re: Walking Dead Mafia Game Thread D5

PostPosted: 17 May 2017, 15:01
by sjg11
Ah, I missed that line. Yeah you're right, no night kills. The bit that was confusing me was the bit that started "The walkers don't just kill humans. They turn them into fellow walkers"

Re: Walking Dead Mafia Game Thread D5

PostPosted: 17 May 2017, 20:23
by Jack007
Okay, I gonna talk plain language now. I hoped you would come to this yourself, but apparently not. Because if you find there yourself, it weighs more than when I tell it, as one who primarily isn't to believe to. I just ask you, to consider the following, as if it hadn't come from me. Then decide for win.

The question is, how would Nanook choose his convert and why. The answer is simple: he chooses the one who is more experienced, and that is Sjg. If he chose me, a beginner, he would have to fear that I mess it up, that I unkennel myself accidentally. And this, the fear that I could reveal myself to be scum, is not WIFOM. Because either variant of the WIFOM balance is still containing the risk of me failing to hide, which is not dependent on how somebody looks at it, but only on my mafia skills, which - as I am a newbie - are limited.

Can you follow me so far? Nanook's fear will be the same, no matter which variant of the WIFOM balance you choose.

Nanook is a very clever man, besides of his stunning wording abilities. He has two irons in the fire. The one is to choose Sjg because he fears that I could reveal myself, as described, the other is to choose Sjg because he knows you gonna think it's WIFOM (but in fact it isn't), and obviously he was right with that.

I have to say it again, I consider Nanook really as an extraordinary intelligent and powerfully eloquent man, although a bit sensitive at times. After all the efforts he put into this game, he surely would merit to win. I'm going to ask him in the AAR, what subject he studied for his finals. I hope it's law and politics, in which case I foretell him a brilliant career (provided he doesn't waste too much time with mafia playing). ;)

In contrast, he sees me as a troll (which of course I am not), and from there might come his fear, that I could fail as a scum.

Re: Walking Dead Mafia Game Thread D5

PostPosted: 17 May 2017, 20:54
by sjg11
Jack007 wrote:The question is, how would Nanook choose his convert and why. The answer is simple: he chooses the one who is more experienced, and that is Sjg. If he chose me, a beginner, he would have to fear that I mess it up, that I unkennel myself accidentally. And this, the fear that I could reveal myself to be scum, is not WIFOM. Because either variant of the WIFOM balance is still containing the risk of me failing to hide, which is not dependent on how somebody looks at it, but only on my mafia skills, which - as I am a newbie - are limited.

But the point is that if you don't mess up during Day Four/Five then I probably get lynched by default. Which is why nanook chose to convert you instead of me.

Nanook is a very clever man, besides of his stunning wording abilities. He has two irons in the fire. The one is to choose Sjg because he fears that I could reveal myself, as described, the other is to choose Sjg because he knows you gonna think it's WIFOM (but in fact it isn't), and obviously he was right with that.

Well it is a WIOM situation. It's the definition of a WIFOM situation.

Re: Walking Dead Mafia Game Thread D5

PostPosted: 17 May 2017, 23:34
by Telleo
Jack007 wrote:Okay, I gonna talk plain language now. I hoped you would come to this yourself, but apparently not. Because if you find there yourself, it weighs more than when I tell it, as one who primarily isn't to believe to. I just ask you, to consider the following, as if it hadn't come from me. Then decide for win.

The question is, how would Nanook choose his convert and why. The answer is simple: he chooses the one who is more experienced, and that is Sjg. If he chose me, a beginner, he would have to fear that I mess it up, that I unkennel myself accidentally. And this, the fear that I could reveal myself to be scum, is not WIFOM. Because either variant of the WIFOM balance is still containing the risk of me failing to hide, which is not dependent on how somebody looks at it, but only on my mafia skills, which - as I am a newbie - are limited.

Can you follow me so far? Nanook's fear will be the same, no matter which variant of the WIFOM balance you choose.

Nanook is a very clever man, besides of his stunning wording abilities. He has two irons in the fire. The one is to choose Sjg because he fears that I could reveal myself, as described, the other is to choose Sjg because he knows you gonna think it's WIFOM (but in fact it isn't), and obviously he was right with that.

I have to say it again, I consider Nanook really as an extraordinary intelligent and powerfully eloquent man, although a bit sensitive at times. After all the efforts he put into this game, he surely would merit to win. I'm going to ask him in the AAR, what subject he studied for his finals. I hope it's law and politics, in which case I foretell him a brilliant career (provided he doesn't waste too much time with mafia playing). ;)

In contrast, he sees me as a troll (which of course I am not), and from there might come his fear, that I could fail as a scum.


I mean, sure... except we know that Zubb was converted, over Sjg or ZZ or Condude or myself. So "Nanook goes for the experienced player" doesn't really work as a defense.

Re: Walking Dead Mafia Game Thread D5

PostPosted: 18 May 2017, 01:26
by Jack007
It's not a defense, Telleo. It's YOUR win or loss. OUR win. I'm town like you.
There's nothing I can prove for you. You must think yourself.

Re: Walking Dead Mafia Game Thread D5

PostPosted: 18 May 2017, 01:59
by sjg11
Alright, one last thing. Jack's wrong about nanook's thought process here. Nanook's smart enough to realise that I'm the more likely lynch here and is smart enough to have picked Jack as a result of that.