Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Game Over - Mafia Victory!

[Jordan767]

I have 2 alternatives to Telleo's plan (which I haven't evaluated fully yet...)

1. we all pair up and go one way one night and the other way the next night. Should keep anyone from dying in one night and puts them at net 0 for 2 nights. Also might end up vigging any scum who go off reservation if we have high numbered players.

2. we don't plan visits beforehand so scum can't fuck with us unless they both act together.

Thoughts?

[Jordan767]

So you agree that it's somewhat clearing for telleo? And overall what do you think of her and my openings so far?

I think it's something potentially clearing but also the first thing I thought of to do in case I was scum (I'm not, thank goodness) so ultimately not terribly indicative either way IMO.

I think your opening fits with how you played as town last game but seems potentially very dangerous. I think Telleo's plan is one I thought of but then thought of alternatives to. IDK which is best. I don't think mechanics talk is in general terribly alignment indicative overall.

[mhsmith0]

I'm going to refine my idea a bit.

Case 1: Town lynch D1
N1 everyone pushes the #2 wagon (the #2 wagon then pulls whoever he/she thinks is the most suspicious)

Advantages:
Town gains an effective vig shot N1 (and the N1 vig target effectively gets a vig shot as well, though it's uncertain if it would actually kill, since it depends on the numbers of the two people)
Town finds out their numbers with a pretty decent degree of accuracy (if two people other than the vig target die, then the surviving town MUST know their own numbers, if <2 such people die, then it's messier but at least a majority of the surviving town will know their own numbers since scum

Disadvantages:
Higher body count, it's conceivable that day 2 becomes MYLO if day 1 lynch AND all the night shots miss

Case 2: Scum lynch D1
Not really sure what's optimal here, but I'm somewhat inclined to go with something that limits the damage, similar to what telleo and jordan are talking about

[mhsmith0]

So you agree that it's somewhat clearing for telleo? And overall what do you think of her and my openings so far?

I think it's something potentially clearing but also the first thing I thought of to do in case I was scum (I'm not, thank goodness) so ultimately not terribly indicative either way IMO.

I think your opening fits with how you played as town last game but seems potentially very dangerous. I think Telleo's plan is one I thought of but then thought of alternatives to. IDK which is best. I don't think mechanics talk is in general terribly alignment indicative overall.

It's similar to what I pushed last game, which is (to me) reflective of the idea that day 1's that are REALLY high leverage are super scary for scum and can force things open much more than the typical day 1's that just end in a single lynch where we just hope it works out.

[Jordan767]

I have 2 alternatives to Telleo's plan (which I haven't evaluated fully yet...)

1. we all pair up and go one way one night and the other way the next night. Should keep anyone from dying in one night and puts them at net 0 for 2 nights. Also might end up vigging any scum who go off reservation if we have high numbered players.

2. we don't plan visits beforehand so scum can't fuck with us unless they both act together.

Thoughts?

addenda:

I should say that I originally meant I hadn't looked at Telleo's plan too closely but that that also applies to mine.

Also, neither hers nor my #1 account for dying players. My thought on mine is to have the odd man out visit a scumread/a wagon. Not sure how to fix hers.

[mhsmith0]

I have 2 alternatives to Telleo's plan (which I haven't evaluated fully yet...)

1. we all pair up and go one way one night and the other way the next night. Should keep anyone from dying in one night and puts them at net 0 for 2 nights. Also might end up vigging any scum who go off reservation if we have high numbered players.

2. we don't plan visits beforehand so scum can't fuck with us unless they both act together.

Thoughts?

addenda:

I should say that I originally meant I hadn't looked at Telleo's plan too closely but that that also applies to mine.

Also, neither hers nor my #1 account for dying players. My thought on mine is to have the odd man out visit a scumread/a wagon. Not sure how to fix hers.

Hers accounts for lynched players fairly clearly

1. Jordan767
2. Sjg11
3. dodgy56
4. Shadowfriend1
5. Happymeal
6. Telleo
7. Keirador
8. Harb
9. MHsmith0
10. Crunkus

gives you sjg visiting dodgy, dodgy visiting SF, etc, and then crunkus visits sjg. Should we lynch elsewhere (cough, cough, SF) then that's where the gap gets filled (dodgy visits mcdonalds visits lord vader etc)

[Jordan767]

So you agree that it's somewhat clearing for telleo? And overall what do you think of her and my openings so far?

I think it's something potentially clearing but also the first thing I thought of to do in case I was scum (I'm not, thank goodness) so ultimately not terribly indicative either way IMO.

I think your opening fits with how you played as town last game but seems potentially very dangerous. I think Telleo's plan is one I thought of but then thought of alternatives to. IDK which is best. I don't think mechanics talk is in general terribly alignment indicative overall.

It's similar to what I pushed last game, which is (to me) reflective of the idea that day 1's that are REALLY high leverage are super scary for scum and can force things open much more than the typical day 1's that just end in a single lynch where we just hope it works out.

Also scary for town if EOD wagons are town/town.

Not sure how your plan tells people their numbers. Also lets scum pick potentially up to 2 kills if they know everyone's action's direction plus its strength.

[Jordan767]

I have 2 alternatives to Telleo's plan (which I haven't evaluated fully yet...)

1. we all pair up and go one way one night and the other way the next night. Should keep anyone from dying in one night and puts them at net 0 for 2 nights. Also might end up vigging any scum who go off reservation if we have high numbered players.

2. we don't plan visits beforehand so scum can't fuck with us unless they both act together.

Thoughts?

addenda:

I should say that I originally meant I hadn't looked at Telleo's plan too closely but that that also applies to mine.

Also, neither hers nor my #1 account for dying players. My thought on mine is to have the odd man out visit a scumread/a wagon. Not sure how to fix hers.

Hers accounts for lynched players fairly clearly

1. Jordan767
2. Sjg11
3. dodgy56
4. Shadowfriend1
5. Happymeal
6. Telleo
7. Keirador
8. Harb
9. MHsmith0
10. Crunkus

gives you sjg visiting dodgy, dodgy visiting SF, etc, and then crunkus visits sjg. Should we lynch elsewhere (cough, cough, SF) then that's where the gap gets filled (dodgy visits mcdonalds visits lord vader etc)

But over multiple (2-3 probably) nights players near a dead player will eventually die unless the dead player and the people next to them are all very similar numbers. Which could happen but shouldn't be relied on.

[Telleo]

@Telleo: My current gut is actually the opposite, "Blood for the Blood God" type strategy

Basically, you push whoever you voted for at EOD. Presuming 2-3 wagons at EOD1, that means that if you get wagoned, you have SUBSTANTIAL risk of dying, since the people who voted for the winning wagon that day have the option to push any of the other wagons.

I'm not 100% on this yet, but it strikes me as a potentially effective way to make D1 maximally interesting (and therefore maximally information-rich) since it's basically something where being wagoned = being dead

Then day 2+ we re-revaluate the strategy depending on who is still alive and what the flips are.

Presuming two effectively villager vig shots N1, the worst case it'd be day 2 LYLO (mislynch D1, two missed villager vigs N1, both scum shots N1 kill villagers). That part is a definite risk, and why I'm not 100% on it, but I generally prefer town to have maximal kill power, and this setup to me at least suggets that's a plausible strategy.

That said, your strategy hadn't really occurred to me, so I'll at least mull it over. No real rush on that end, and I'm curious where others come down on the mechanics of the game.

I mean... that plan seems like "If you've got more than two votes on you, you're pretty much dead." Not sure how killing an extra two-three people, potentially more depending on what the scum do, is town-positive...

[Telleo]

Oh right also. By revealing our numbers we give the scum a huge advantage, because they can see who is close to death and who isn't. On the other hand, if we follow this (or any plan, really), they'll already be able to figure them out. BUT, we may, over a night or two, be able to figure out a few options for what our own numbers are.

You know what? I'm starting to think this game might involve math. Everyone up to date on their game theory?

Slight possible derp clear for Telleo there unless anyone can vouch for her screwing up rules understanding as a wolf. It'd seem pretty early in the game for her to have gotten advice THAT quickly from a teammate to fake that sort of thing.

Uhhh. That wasn't a rule misunderstanding. That was just something I forgot to put in the OG plan writeup. I knew that was an effect of the plan.