Army Trieste

Anything about the Diplomacy game in general.

Re: Army Trieste

Postby qtkat » 24 Jan 2018, 00:31

I Think the balance of power in the Med is very precarious. No fleet in Trieste seems like a small change but France and Turkey could crush Italy like a vice.
Obviously, I can offer you no assurances -- none that would be of any value to you anyway. All I can do is appeal to your well informed sense of self-interest. You will do what you will.

If Russia offers you a future draw in exchange for your allegiance, she's probably lying. Just sayin'.
qtkat
 
Posts: 49
Joined: 14 Jan 2015, 20:43
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (717)
All-game rating: (719)
Timezone: GMT-6

Re: Army Trieste

Postby mhsmith0 » 27 Jan 2018, 08:04

army Trieste probably also helps turkey a bit. An Austrian navy in Greece in 1901 is BAD NEWS for turkey, but an army there isn’t quite the same disaster. Not sure how much an easier a/I relationship counteracts that tho.
Proud holder of the Superior Tophat of Solving, an item entrusted with the forum's most prominent smartass
User avatar
mhsmith0
Premium Member
 
Posts: 3580
Joined: 11 Dec 2015, 06:55
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1269)
All-game rating: (1439)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Army Trieste

Postby Pete the Great » 28 Feb 2019, 04:27

When playing the "Winter 1900" variant do the Austrians always take 3 armies and what has been the result?
User avatar
Pete the Great
 
Posts: 30
Joined: 10 Feb 2019, 03:00
Location: NY State, USA
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1055
All-game rating: 1057
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Army Trieste

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 28 Feb 2019, 04:51

For some perspective, in Baron VonPowell's 1900, which is playable on this site (and unrelated to "Winter 1900"), Austria begins with three armies. It comes out as middle-of-the-pack in terms of overall performance (over several hundred full-press standard games), and that variant is roughly about as balanced as classic Dip (by measure of range & standard deviation of scored results by power for similar sample sizes and player populations).

Note that this is just one of a number of changes to the map and setup, so it's not an exact analogue to starting Austria with an army in Trieste on the classic map, but it's probably the closest you'll get to having data on that hypothetical.
NoPunIn10Did
Lead Volunteer Developer

Forum Administrator

Variant GM & Designer
User avatar
NoPunIn10Did
Premium Member
 
Posts: 2436
Joined: 17 Aug 2011, 00:17
Location: North Carolina
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1000
All-game rating: 1471
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Army Trieste

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 28 Feb 2019, 04:56

Pete the Great wrote:When playing the "Winter 1900" variant do the Austrians always take 3 armies and what has been the result?

An interesting question that would require Dipsy to look up (or a lot of busywork). There have been 230 full-press Winter 1900 games on the classic map (sans other rule variants), but I doubt that you'll find that many where Austria takes 3 armies while its neighbors opt to start with classic unit setups.
NoPunIn10Did
Lead Volunteer Developer

Forum Administrator

Variant GM & Designer
User avatar
NoPunIn10Did
Premium Member
 
Posts: 2436
Joined: 17 Aug 2011, 00:17
Location: North Carolina
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1000
All-game rating: 1471
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Army Trieste

Postby Pete the Great » 28 Feb 2019, 05:12

However, it might give us insight looking at Winter 1900 variants. How did the Austira's that took 3 armies perform versus those that did a standard split of 2 armies/1 fleet? It sounds like there is sufficient sample size to gain additional clarity on the question.

Interesting the first archived game I looked at in your search showed it with 3 armies and participating in a 3 way draw. Sounds lie an interesting project.
User avatar
Pete the Great
 
Posts: 30
Joined: 10 Feb 2019, 03:00
Location: NY State, USA
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1055
All-game rating: 1057
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Army Trieste

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 28 Feb 2019, 05:35

Pete the Great wrote:However, it might give us insight looking at Winter 1900 variants. How did the Austira's that took 3 armies perform versus those that did a standard split of 2 armies/1 fleet? It sounds like there is sufficient sample size to gain additional clarity on the question.

Interesting the first archived game I looked at in your search showed it with 3 armies and participating in a 3 way draw. Sounds lie an interesting project.


But what were the starting units from Italy, Turkey, and Russia?

Without a somewhat consistent scenario, it’s hard to make such judgments.
NoPunIn10Did
Lead Volunteer Developer

Forum Administrator

Variant GM & Designer
User avatar
NoPunIn10Did
Premium Member
 
Posts: 2436
Joined: 17 Aug 2011, 00:17
Location: North Carolina
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1000
All-game rating: 1471
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Army Trieste

Postby David E. Cohen » 28 Feb 2019, 12:37

WHSeward wrote:
Radical Pumpkin wrote:Makes me wonder how the game was ever designed with a reasonable level of balance in the first place when minor changes have such a huge impact.


Playtesting.
A bit of luck.
Genius.
All of the above.


It is my understanding that Mr. Calhamer did a TON of playtesting before the game was first published.
Play every game of Diplomacy as if it will be the last game of Diplomacy you will ever play.
User avatar
David E. Cohen
 
Posts: 437
Joined: 28 Jan 2008, 11:30
Location: Treading the Path to Diplo-Shambhala
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Army Trieste

Postby Pete the Great » 01 Mar 2019, 05:35

NoPunIn10Did wrote:
An interesting question that would require Dipsy to look up (or a lot of busywork). There have been 230 full-press Winter 1900 games on the classic map (sans other rule variants), but I doubt that you'll find that many where Austria takes 3 armies while its neighbors opt to start with classic unit setups.


So I started to look at the 230 games and it is interesting: Looking at just the outcomes on the first page (15 games), Austria solo'd twice and participated in 2 draws (1 two way and 1 three way). If we count draws as winning, that is just over 25% winning percentage. Also in one of the other country solo's Austria came close to taking it.

I looked at the detail of the first 7 games. Only the first one had a map for Spring 01 to see whether units were armies or fleets, so it was tedious to determine starting composition in some of the games. The winter 00 build turns were not available for me to look at.
*In 6 of those games Austria choose 3 armies.
*Italy preferred naval power in 5 of the 7 with 2 Fleets and 1 army, going traditional in 2 with 2 armies and 1 fleet.
* Turkey generally also emphasized the navy with 1 with 3 fleets, 5 with 2 fleets and 1 traditional 1 fleet 2 armies.
* Russia was a tough one to figure out as several times SEV was destroyed before I could determine if it was a army or fleet. I treated any STP to Norway as an army as there was no coastal designation on the STP. Therefore of the 7 games Russia choose 4 armies twice, 1 fleet and 3 armies three times, and 1 "?" and 3 armies twice.

I wonder if Russian army selections were in reaction to Austria's third army selection? Also was the Turkish 2nd fleet a reaction to Italy's 2nd? I hope someone will take a look at the second page of the 230 games and see if results are similar. Unfortunately I have to fetch a kid from college tomorrow and have a very busy week ahead, but I hope someone will take a look and share..
User avatar
Pete the Great
 
Posts: 30
Joined: 10 Feb 2019, 03:00
Location: NY State, USA
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1055
All-game rating: 1057
Timezone: GMT-5

Previous

Return to Diplomacy Lore

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest