Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

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Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

Postby diploguy » 14 Jan 2014, 23:48

I was just in a game where one could say there was discourteous play. Now, players can be discourteous all they want, I get that. I just wonder what the perspective is on the proper etiquette in the following situation.

Basic:
What's the gamers' proper etiquette when asked to accept defeat by-way-of draw in an obviously lost game?

Details:
I and another country were clear allies from the start and rose quickly as the force to be reckoned with. A third nation was also strong but had no solid allies. My ally and I were able to chip away at the 3rd nation's power while rendering the minor nations hopelessly lost. Once we were down to 3 nations we attempted to submit a 2-way draw, excluding the 3rd nation. The 3rd nation simply refused to accept it despite being faced with a hopeless situation. His fall began at about 8 units but even when he was down to 2 units and my Ally and I were showing no signs of trying for a solo he still wouldn't accept the defeat by-way-of draw.

I recognize this is totally in his rights to do so. As long as you're not cheating you can play the game however you'd like. But what would you say is the proper etiquette in this situation?
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Re: Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

Postby Fatmo » 15 Jan 2014, 00:08

A game is never obviously lost.

The "discourteous" play you mention is actually the right way to play the game. You're not supposed to just give up once things don't look like they are going your way. If you can get to a position where you are one of three surviving powers, I'd say it's discourteous to not continue to play the game out to the last unit. Make the other guys earn that two-way draw the hard way if they really want it, but there's a very great chance that one of the two will snag the solo at the last minute. The threat of that solo is in fact one way of making sure you stay relevant, even if you are down to just a couple of SCs.

If you look at it the other way around, I'd probably bet that more people would consider it discourteous to play a game where you just pick an ally at the start and simply coast your way to a two-way draw, when there was almost certainly some point when one or the other could have stabbed for a solo. Most people play this game trying to win, and it's fair to assume that other players are trying to win.

Granted, two way draws do have their place, but in my humble opinion they happen too often when one player could otherwise have taken a solo. I had one two-way draw like this, and I've never felt so guilty about the way I played as when I did this (this was of course a while after that game ended, when I started to play more games and realized how lame it is to play like that for all the other players). I know there are different opinions on these matters, but I think it's safe to say that the third player in your game was anything but discourteous. He was just doing his best to try to get the best possible result, instead of just rolling over and letting you guys win easy. Good play from him.
Last edited by Fatmo on 15 Jan 2014, 00:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

Postby numberwang1 » 15 Jan 2014, 00:09

Conquer him. You will earn the right to exclude him from the draw by excluding him from the game. I don't think it's discourteous to play a game out as long as you can, and discouraging playing games in lost positions is practically encouraging people to surrender if for example there are no draws offered. No game is truly hopeless until you are out of SC's. Perhaps he can turn your ally against you, or you against your ally. If there was no truly no chance, he would quit. If I were you, I would respect rather than recognize (although you seem unwilling to do even that) his right to play the game out, and I would crush him. If you have a draw anyway, crushing your opponent should not impede your inevitable victory, only postpone it.

Kudos to that guy for playing out a game instead of quitting.
Last edited by numberwang1 on 15 Jan 2014, 00:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

Postby norlight » 15 Jan 2014, 00:16

numberwang1, I agree with your opinion, but there is no need to insult the author of the topic - he did not mean anything bad.
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Re: Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

Postby numberwang1 » 15 Jan 2014, 00:20

No insult intended, I was just saying he seems reluctant to recognize the guy's right to play out the game until the end because he is questioning that right here! I do not think a that is insulting and again, I intended no offense.
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Re: Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

Postby VegaMan » 15 Jan 2014, 00:28

No one should be allowed to quit. All must fight to the death!
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Re: Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

Postby Sparrowhawk » 15 Jan 2014, 00:39

I must confess I agree. Even if the game is hopeless for him, there's still the battle between the two of you and by presenting a roadblock, he may induce a stab, and ride those coattails into his own 2 way draw.

Still, I find that if I'm pretty much beaten and the other players opt for a draw I don't stand in the way of that.
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Re: Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

Postby -Gambit- » 15 Jan 2014, 00:43

Do I considered discourteous...yes, are they allowed to play it out in hope of something falling there way...YES!

But at the same time.....you can be discourteous right back. Message him all you want to accept the draw and bicker all you want on public press. Its your free right to do that too, sometimes they cave in.

This stuff happens all the time and can even sometimes can be a useful tool to setup an opponent for a stab. If you know how to use the 1 SC's players arrogance and discourteousness in your favor and the position presents itself.

For example...I was in a game once, where an extremely rude (not just discourteous) player, started getting cocky when he was winning. Everybody then attacked him at the same time and he went from cocky to full out insane! Anyways, a total of 5 players remained (including the rude guy) when rude guy was down to 1 SC, player 1 kept applying for 4-way draw offers, knowing full well that rude guy would reject each time (a bit of gamble if rude guy accepted)

Anyways player number 4 had left himself open for a tremendous stab from all the other players (mostly player 1's doing, but 2 & 3 were in on it too), however player 4 was comforted by the draw offers, so he didn't mind his position or the play of those around him (especially player 1). Once rude guy rejected the last draw he could, everyone stabbed player 4 and we settled on a 3-way draw (with player 4 who had 1 SC left accepting the 3-way without him, he was actually quite honorable).

So you can certainly use the disgrunted 1 SC player who keeps rejecting draws to your advantage.
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Re: Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

Postby rick.leeds » 15 Jan 2014, 01:01

I have to say, there would be plenty of players who would wonder why, in this situation, one of the two players in this alliance didn't try for the solo? The objective of Dip is to gain a solo victory, yet there are times when a 2-player alliance becomes dominant and neither attempts to get a solo. Again, this is up to each player... as it is a player's right to play the game out and force an alliance to take the draw.

So, is it discourteous? Absolutely not. Whatever result you are trying to get, you have to earn it.
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Re: Discourteous play: dragging out hopeless game.

Postby Barkn » 15 Jan 2014, 01:02

The two way draw is hard to manage, only one away from the solo right? So the third hopeless party uses his position to include himself in the draw, b/c players A and B might not want to risk the other getting the solo. its a position. Use it to your advantage.
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