Submarines! (4 of 7)

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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby Woolgie » 06 Aug 2020, 17:40

Pops2112 wrote:Thanks for that clarification.

Some more for you (sorry):
1. I assume Subs at the surface will be visible to all, so it will be obvious if a surface Sub has been ordered to Dive; once underwater, though, if Subs will be invisible unless/until they surface, I assume underwater-underwater Sub movement will NOT be reported in any 'Order History' at the end of each phase. Correct?
2. If a surface Fleet detects an underwater Sub (via Hold/Sonar), is that info. only for the detecting Fleet's Power (who can choose to share it, or lie about it, as they may wish), or does the detected Sub become visible to all? How will the successful Sub detection be reported to the detecting Fleet's Power?
3. Going back to my original query and your clarification, WHERE will a Power be allowed to Build 1 x 'detached' Sub? Must that still be Built at a vacant, coastal Home SC? The preceding post suggesting Austria will be (even) more difficult in this variant assumes 'yes', I think.
4. Will each player need to keep track of where their own u/w Subs are (I assume yes, because otherwise as GM you'd have to be creating 7 separate maps each phase, each one showing a different set of Sub positions as respectively known to each player)?


1. Yes, correct. Your own submarine orders will be reported back to you privately along with success or bounce details (but not where it was bounced from).
2. Sonar info is only provided to the power owning the fleet. They can lie about it all they want. The info will be provided in private message immediately following the results of the phase.
3. Yes, but as my previous post I think Austria needs to be allowed to build subs in Albania.
4. Yes they will need to keep track themselves. I will report their own unit's locations in text form privately after each phase.
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Pops2112 » 06 Aug 2020, 18:37

For my part I would accept the Albania exceptional-Build rule solution proposed for Austria.

Sorry to be the one with all the questions, but a further to my previous further questions (with thanks for all the answers so far) ...

5. Subs behave like Fleets, I assume, as regards the various special coastal territories. Thus, e.g., (a) a Sub (StP(sc)) cannot exit to BAR, (b) a Sub (BLA) cannot move directly to AEG, but can Move successively BLA-Con, then Con-BLA. In relation to (b), presumably only on the surface, so if for some reason there were ever an u/w Sub in the Black Sea wanting to head West, it would need to Surface first, then Move to Constantinople, then Move to the Aegean.
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Chairpusher » 06 Aug 2020, 20:02

Jeremy Maiden brought out a Variant called Cannibalism using Submarines10 back in the 70s, sadly it never got off the ground .
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Woolgie » 06 Aug 2020, 20:08

Pops2112 wrote:For my part I would accept the Albania exceptional-Build rule solution proposed for Austria.

Sorry to be the one with all the questions, but a further to my previous further questions (with thanks for all the answers so far) ...

5. Subs behave like Fleets, I assume, as regards the various special coastal territories. Thus, e.g., (a) a Sub (StP(sc)) cannot exit to BAR, (b) a Sub (BLA) cannot move directly to AEG, but can Move successively BLA-Con, then Con-BLA. In relation to (b), presumably only on the surface, so if for some reason there were ever an u/w Sub in the Black Sea wanting to head West, it would need to Surface first, then Move to Constantinople, then Move to the Aegean.


Yes, that's how I see it. Whilst you could argue submarines could be underwater in Constantinople, this would contradict the 'must be on the surface to capture an SC' rule.
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby AKFD » 07 Aug 2020, 03:54

Put me in as a reserve.
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Re: Submarines! (0 of 7)

Postby hsiale » 07 Aug 2020, 09:57

Woolgie wrote:
hsiale wrote:I think this rule puts Austria at serious disadvantage. All other powers have 2-3 coastal home SCs, with at least one of them reasonably safe to leave empty for a build in Fall 1901. Austria has only Trieste and it is super easy for Italy to either conquer it or at least force Austria to keep it occupied, so Austria in the opening is either a unit down or at complete mercy of Italy.


A very good point, and I think Austria needs to be offered a submarine build location (Albania unless there are any objections?) This wouldn’t be a new SC and wouldn’t be able to build armies or fleets, but would be able to build submarines as long as Austria still has at least one SC.

So this would be:
1. Austria controls Albania at the start of the game.
2. As long as Albania is under control of Austria AND vacated AND Austria can build a submarine this submarine can be built in Albania.

Sounds a lot better. Albania is harder to capture than Trieste, and only Italy can do this, but at a cost of not taking Tunis.
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Custer » 07 Aug 2020, 17:41

I like the Albania rule.

So a sub surfacing in the Black Sea and moving to Cons is all one turn correct? Not sub surfaces in the Black (one turn) and sub moves to Cons (second turn)?

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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Pops2112 » 07 Aug 2020, 22:09

Hi Custer - I understood it differently, namely that a Sub Surface Order is a species of Move, so an u/w Sub in the Black Sea, if there ever were such a thing, would take 3 turns to get to the Aegean - Surface, then Move to Constantinople, then Move to the Aegean (which can be either at the surface or by a Dive) - Woolgie's original long post says Surface is always 'in-place', whereas Dive can be in-place or to an adjacent sea space.

Woolgie will no doubt clarify for us ...
Last edited by Pops2112 on 08 Aug 2020, 08:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby hsiale » 07 Aug 2020, 23:01

From reading the first post, it seems Surface is vertical only, but Dive can be to an adjacent region. So you can go from U Black Sea to U Aegean in 3 turns via S BLA Surface, S BLA Move Con, S Con Dive Aegean.
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Custer » 08 Aug 2020, 01:22

I say it can be done in two. Move from Black to Cons (surface obviously) in Cons. Then Cons to Aeg (dive) on the way. So invisible in Aeg. Thats all done in two turns. Just like a fleet.

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