AARs

GM: Pedros. WINNER: WarSmith (Cornubia).

AARs

Postby Pedros » 31 Mar 2011, 13:22

Fascinating game, and a result I for one didn't expect. I suspect kininvie would have been surprised how quickly, though two or three turns ago he did express some anxiety privately!
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
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Re: AARs

Postby thewysecat » 31 Mar 2011, 13:45

thewysecat wrote:Congratulations WarSmith,

My AAR: Took on hopeless Scottish position very late in game after being crippled by NMRs. Not sure why really. Kind of an impulse. There was some scope for imaginative play, but the window of opportunity was very narrow. I played it to survive and try and restore all Scottish home SCs. Succeeded and failed respectively.

In my judgement, it was immediately clear to me that - although marginally behind the SC count - Cornubia was going to win and that Ireland didn't see that he was setting it up. Ireland's unit mix and SC distribution was all wrong if he wanted to stop Cornubia. Plus he was weakening those on the mainland with armies who could stop it. He'd have to contract significantly and rapidly in SC count when Cornubia's solo attempt came to have a chance of helping the other Celts stop Cornubia. Problem is, it is rare that any player/power in any Dip game fully appreciates just how much that is true in time to truly act in such circumstances. They always think there is another turn or another chance or scheme. That's how solos happen.

The story of this one's finale was that in the last turn I wrote openly to Paulus and told him he had to act now and be bold. He had to plan to be a much smaller power if he hoped to hold on for a draw! He said thanks, but he wanted to take a look for a turn. He declined to support Edi into Glasgow. Madness. I didn't bother asking twice and simply wrote back politely. I wasn't that invested. (1) WarSmith deserved to win. (2) If the new Ireland couldn't see it, well...(shrugs)

So overall, from my turn one I made nice with Wales & vassaled to Cornubia who I immediately promised to help win. WS rather unnecessarily made a minature betrayal of me to old Ireland a couple of game years in when I could have taken Hebredes and grown to 5 SCs, but he insisted on my delaying my fleet movement and 'accidentally' Ireland bounced me out of Gla as WS 'tried' to let me take it. He didn't need to help me of course, but all scope for imaginative play for Scotland rather died after that as it was clear I couldn't ever get to 5.

I honoured the game and duly warned the new Ireland, but I didn't fight as hard over it diplomatically as I might otherwise have done. If Ireland could not see why he needed to support me to Glasgow I figured I'd just let the thing play out and I'd at least end on one Scottish home SC with none held by Ireland the power who had - after all - crippled Scotland. I'd hoped to have two, but unromantic that he is WS took Edi too.

Wyse


Sorry in wrong thread originally
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Re: AARs

Postby Paulus Toronto » 31 Mar 2011, 14:02

thewysecat wrote:
thewysecat wrote:Congratulations WarSmith,


The story of this one's finale was that in the last turn I wrote openly to Paulus and told him he had to act now and be bold. He had to plan to be a much smaller power if he hoped to hold on for a draw! He said thanks, but he wanted to take a look for a turn. He declined to support Edi into Glasgow. Madness. I didn't bother asking twice and simply wrote back politely. I wasn't that invested. (1) WarSmith deserved to win. (2) If the new Ireland couldn't see it, well...(shrugs)


Wyse


Thanks Wyse for summarizing much of my point of view in your AAR. With the exception of point #2, It is pretty much as you've described, so I won't repeat it. What would be interesting for me to know is, if my failure to support you to Glasgow was madness, what do you call giving Edi outright to Cornubia?
Congratulations Warsmith.
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Re: AARs

Postby thewysecat » 31 Mar 2011, 15:02

paulus wrote:if my failure to support you to Glasgow was madness, what do you call giving Edi outright to Cornubia?

Icing on the cake. He doesn't need that SC to win. He wins without it anyway.

You want to save Aberdeen? Offer to support Edi to Gla then Edi cannot be attacking Aberdeen! Instead, you say: "please attack Gla from Edi but I won't be supporting you. Be a good boy and I might support you next year, but I want to see if WS does the moves I requested this turn." That was your message to me.

In other words, your position was that you still wanted to be allies with Cornubia so you didn't want to do anything to him that final turn, but you wanted me not to attack you as a kind of 'tribute' so that I could maybe 'earn' your support next year if Cornubia does do the dirty on you. Even if I do as you say if your preferred plan works out you are still my enemy, but one holding one of my home SCs.

I don't know what WS told you to make you think that two you weren't at war, and that those 2 fleets weren't just going to sail into your two SE English ports but since it was clearly working enough to delay you the last turn he needed I figured - "all power to him!" I might as well throw up the hail mary and hope to end on 5 SCs instead of 4 as he soloes. What difference does it make?
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Re: AARs

Postby WarSmith » 31 Mar 2011, 18:14

Well, it's rare that I solo in a forum game, given the quality of players and the fact that I do like to hold to alliances. This is a story of a two-way that turned into a solo thanks to NMRs, and one set of very bad orders...

Just to clear up a couple of myths.
First off - I thought that I needed 20 (and have the msg from Pedros to prove it), so I went for Edin to finish the game, I was reluctant to do it as I had (with the best intentions) promised Wyse that I wouln't win at his expense. I struggled with the dcision for a while, but then I got a note from Paulus near the end - read heavily between the lines and realised that Scotland was organising a combined resistance - so I thought 'sod it', changed my orders and sent them in. If it was 19 to win I prolly wouln't have.
Second - I was planning to stab Ireland for a very long time. And as Pedros can attest, I laid orders to hit hard at a telling time, long before we knew Kininvie had gone missing.

The NMR that set me on my way early was Anglia's - which allowd me to rout him.

Early in the game I set out my strategy to hit wales or anglia early on. The NMR from Anglia, and pleasant three-way dialog with Palin and Kininvie made me choose Anglia to take out.
I may have won the game, but credit has to go to Kininvie for shaping it, in a couple of ways...
First - the convoys of all convoys as we sent one of my armies deep into scotland (I'd actually wanted to wait a turn and do a full 'lands end to john o'groats' move, but wales and ireland were good to go, so we did. Second - I never had enough trust in Ireland to really commit heart an soul to a 2 way with him - I had solo in mind for ages. I believed that he would be strong enough to stop me, however. 2 reasons for lack of full trust, the first is that I entered three-way comms with Palin and him after they'd already been chatting, and insistance to send an Irish fleet around the south and to the east coast was never comfortable for me. I thought that they would stab me. However, there was on phase where wales entered som weak orders in spring 656 - not going to BCH, letting me into SEV, and that was the point that our stab on Wales really got its momentum. I could also tell that Ireland's skills and willingless to put aside his first ally could spell trouble for me later, especially if he were to patch things up with the current scotland.

Some will say that I was not going to stab Ireland until he dissappeared and we started getting replacements, but its not true. Probably the only people who can attest to that are the GM, and The new scotland. Timing is what it was hough
Wyse was a great addition to the game, I was at the point of preparing my stab, and it was good to plot. I felt bad to hold back his growth with the bounce situation in Gla, and genuinely would have liked to do more with the guy. If he had grown in those stages, I've no doubt that he could have marshalled all against me, and we'd probably be looking at about 3 years to go, and a big draw right now. Thanks Paulus for also making the attempt to communicate - you actually helped me make a big decision at the end there!

I've enjoyed this game,and aside from a couple of flamboyant moves that I'll remember fondly - I think I'll put this one down to as a lesson that being a reliable player can reap rewards! I had my orders in early, and kept comms high.
Thanks again to all who played - and sorry for missing out some from this narrative. I'm happy to say more too ;)
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Re: AARs

Postby thewysecat » 31 Mar 2011, 18:37

WarSmith wrote:I felt bad to hold back his growth with the bounce situation in Gla, and genuinely would have liked to do more with the guy. If he had grown in those stages, I've no doubt that he could have marshalled all against me, and we'd probably be looking at about 3 years to go, and a big draw right now.

Maybe. We'd made a deal and if you'd have stuck to it then more than likely I would have done too. 99% of the time I do. I've become quite a care bear really. Only an Ireland (old or new) showing sufficient energy and imagination to persuade me that there was some fun to be had working with them instead would have convinced me to switch.

Instead, you broke the deal first and almost immediately. It wasn't a big shock, but I no longer felt under any obligation not to approach Ireland (old or new) to try and stop you. So, self-fulfilling prophecy there. That said, I made my approach and got back an answer so unsatisfactory in specifics and, in my opinion, scope of understanding of the reality of the situation that I thought: "Screw it. Why the hell is a 4 unit replacement Scotland miles away from Cornubia and only bordering 1 of his SCs the one trying to rally a resistance anyway?" Pity to lose Edinburgh though. Still in some imaginary game that carries on I take it back next year and Glasgow after that...maybe...before the purple blanket covers all

My only positive memory really was capturing back 2 Irish SCs and your reaction to my first message when you suddenly realised that I realised that you were about to stab Ireland for the solo

Congrats again
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Re: AARs

Postby Pedros » 31 Mar 2011, 18:47

Just my two-pennyworth! WarSmith is right - he did tell me some time ago that he was preparing a stab on Ireland. k is a very good player and could see the possibility, and I'd have liked to see him try to prepare a defence.

And apologies WarSmith for misleading you over the target. It's officially 19 out of 37, and I must have worked from my own (faulty) centre count when I told you 20. Fortunately it didn't matter!

I'm not going to post my own comments on the game until others have had a chance, but two things I want to say for now. The first is that although I posted my own view that Cornubia is a hard nation even to survive with, I've just had a look at the creator's early comments (1997) (http://www.diplom.org/Zine/S1997M/Bache/dpart.html) where he reports that Cornubia actually had the best record at that time, and it is "notoriously hard to eliminate". And with a win and a two-way in the only three completed games here, that's borne out.

The second point is related. After four games on site now (including the unfinished Tournament game) there is plenty of experience to share, and I'm going to start a "Heptarchy strategies" thread in the Archived Heptarchy sub-Forum. It can look at the structure of the game as a whole, but I expect especially discussion about possible strategies, strengths and weaknesses of the different nations. I hope you'll all contribute.
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
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