World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

GM: DRifteR. 4-way draw - sroca (Ghana), Diplomat (PacRus), Yorkshireman (S Africa), infinity8ball (India)

World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

Postby sroca » 07 Nov 2008, 23:28

Game: World Diplomacy
Winners: Diplomat (Pacific Russia), infinity8ball (India), Yorshireman (South Africa), sroca (Ghana)

Western North America - Dar Krum
United States - Grumpy
Canada - raytheruler
Argentina - caffeine then The Leader
Brazil - Tommy4ever then Tommy4ever :lol:
South Africa - Yorkshireman
Kenya - frankfrankfrank
Ghana - Vontrappsburg then sroca
Libya - CowInAPie
Middle East - MasterRadishes
Europe - Mende
Russia - RadioactiveSushi
India - infinity8ball
China - khan1234
Pacific Russia - Diplomat
Austrailia - mtgoat
Antartica - Spitfire

I think the list is right, but tell me if I missed someone.
Hebrews 3:7-8a (ESV)
"Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, 'Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts...'"

Please donate funds to the site for its extended operation. Here is the link: http://www.playdiplomacy.com/premium.php
User avatar
sroca
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 1569
Joined: 22 May 2008, 22:30
Location: Georgia, USA
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (1131)
All-game rating: (1133)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

Postby Diplomat » 08 Nov 2008, 05:50

Game: World Diplomacy
Winners: Diplomat (Pacific Russia), infinity8ball (India), Yorshireman (South Africa), sroca (Ghana)

Western North America - Dar Krum – 2 centers
United States – Grumpy - 0
Canada – raytheruler - 4
Argentina - caffeine then The Leader - 0
Brazil - Tommy4ever then Tommy4ever - 0
South Africa – Yorkshireman - 14
Kenya – frankfrankfrank - 0
Ghana - Vontrappsburg then sroca - 18
Libya – CowInAPie - 0
Middle East – MasterRadishes - 0
Europe – Mende - 0
Russia – RadioactiveSushi - 0
India - infinity8ball - 19
China - khan1234 - 0
Pacific Russia – Diplomat - 29
Austrailia – mtgoat - 0
Antartica – Spitfire – 0

I’m going to be brief with this since it would take hours to go through this game like many of the other AARs that I write. Sorry if I skip over parts everyone else thought was important. looking back this is not that short after all...

1901

Drew Pacific Russia – tucked away in a corner almost like Turkey so options for expansion are limited, as are threats. Relatively standard diplomacy efforts, as I’m next to Infinity and Master Radishes, and as it is clear that this game will be won with coalitions, we set up a early Triple between us, one that I hoped would last to the end of the game. MR and I to focus on Russia, Infinity and I to focus on China. We proceed from there. Through negotiations with both Russia and China I manage to secure potentially contested centers in exchange for an early peace. Turn ends with 6 centers, then… DOH! Build orders were never sent in! I had written them, just not sent them. I dreaded 1902 as I thought it would be a sure provocation to attack.

1902

For most of this year I sit quiet and try not to stir things up. Actually my lack of builds may have helped since it slowed me down and allowed everyone near me to engage someone close to them. MR and I worked Europe and Russia, well mostly he worked them, I just waited to see which way things would go between them and where I could grow. Infinity and I set up to attack China in 1903.

1903

MR and I take out Russia, helped along by some NMRs on his part, and Ifni and I take China down to 1 center and basically out of the game. 3 new builds for me taking me to 9 and with no real enemies on any border, or so I thought. Europe, getting pressure from Canada is asking for help and MR and I both ponder how to keep Canada from expanding into this area. Lots of discussion about the powerful North American alliance. I think it was here in the fall that MR starts working on Canada and I pipe in only to provide encouragement. That was all MR’s effort in getting Ray to turn on DK and Grumpy.

1904

MR and I reduce Europe to 2 centers, China is gone, and fleet power becomes really sexy. 2 new builds for me so 2 fleets, and I’m promising to help Ray in Canada with my fleets so I send them over towards North America, in both directions, which causes Canada some real consternation. This started a long series of messages that I got from Ray in Canada along the line of “don’t attack me, I know your going to attack me aren’t you” that would pop up from time to time. Honestly I did not know where I was going to expand from here but, at 11 centers, I was starting to get some worrisome look from the other players. I think this is about the time that the Indian Ocean Trading Company was born, a 5 player alliance with new members MT Goat in Australia and Spitfire in Antartica. The idea being we would expand together and take over the world with our back yards protected. Needless to say it did not last long.

1905

Tensions really started to climb among the IOTC and amount Infinity, MR and myself. Either MR or Ifni began looking at my territory and thinking it looked tasty, either that or that I looked too dangerous. I’m not sure who it was, and I do hope to find out now, though I suspect it was Infi that started it. Anyway I got wind of the issues of course, I mean this game had 17 players to start and someone is always talking, and began furiously working to break their alliance up in any way that I could. I looked first to MR as a potential ally, and kept getting ‘well I’ll probably just sit this out’ messages when I was asking for help. This seemed to me to be a ‘I’ll wait to attack you until someone else starts it’ message and nothing I could count on. I’m not sure at all how many players might have been involved but this was truly the only contest that I faced the entire game. I solved it though, and sold my soul to Ifni in the process. I have him a game long blanket guarantee that I would not attack him in any center regardless of who asked me or what attacking him might do for my ability to win the game. I gave him that promise, and kept it, to the end of the game. Ifni and I moved to attack Radishes, and I took a center in Bel, but more to force him to talk to me about where we were going than as a prelude to an attack.

1906

MR and Ifni and I seem to patch things up so I continue, but with a close eye on the south. I move into British Isles, a gift from Canada for leaving North America alone, and start fortifying my position on the board. I think this was the year that MR, MT and Spitfire try to coax me into attacking Ifni for the first time and this would go on for several turns as Ifni and MT began to fight. Though 1906 and with my builds I’m basically able to solidy all fronts with my units, and solidify my diplomatic position with most of the players. Again I end the turn with no clear opponents despite holding the center count lead, though Ray is getting close. DK and Grumpy had started a energetic campaign to get someone, anyone really, to attack Ray. Unfortunately for them no one would bite for many years, though DK did live to see it. I’m also worried throughout all of this year that MR and Ifni are actually still plotting and I think it was this year that Ifni forwards a message to me from MR again proposing an attack on me. I confront MR who says it was and old message, but I’m about done with that pairing and realize there is just no way I can leave myself exposed to both of them.

1907 and 1908

Ifni and I move on MR, my only concern is letting Sroca in Ghana onto the Continent as I did not think we could take MR apart fast enough to keep him from gaining a foothold. From the standpoint of playing the game this is where is stopped being either interesting or fun for me. I was getting badgered by several powers, MT and Spit, MR, Ifni, Ray, all looking for help, wanting to know if I was going to attack them, or trying to get me to attack Ifni. MR and MT tried to come up with a plan to get Ifni to attack me to break out deal, though it did not work. Sadly, seeing MR get involved in this spelled his doom since I felt there was just no way I could trust him and Infinity both. I was trying to expand slowly, keeping Ray always within just an SC or 2, but I was already at 16. At the end of 08 I offered up the first Draw to include Infi, Sroca, Ray and Myself with an SC total of 52 between us. This draw was shot down.

1909

The threat of Sroca never materialized, at least for me. Ifni and I took MR down to 1, and that center was going to be mine, I had Ifni locked up and asking for DMZs, I’m sure he was certain he was next on the list. I still had no real enemies on the board and the last great coalition that did not involve me, Frankx3 and Sroca in Africa, had fallen. I looked around the board and really, given the limited spaces available for units to attack each other, it would have taken 3-4 players in combination to cause me problems and, as long as one of them was not Ray, I would have prevailed I think.

1910 - 1911

DK who never tired of sending me messages sent me one that said that he at least wanted to die at the hands of someone competent, suggesting that if I were attacking he would have been long dead. This made me laugh and got my attention. South America was sitting there and Ray was having personal issues and hardly playing so I decided it was time to start landing Armies there. It was really a move designed to pressure Yorkshireman, who had killed my most recent draw offer and expand my power. During this time Ray made a mistake. He showed up and said he was moving into my territory, that he deserved some for some reason, and that I had boxed him in unfairly. As many of you will recall he was NMR for several turns during this phase, dealing with RL issues. I had no problem with that but, not that he expected to come back to the game and expand at my expense. He basically expected me to turn around and leave South America to him.

1912

I decided to encourage Ray to be less demanding and took Alaska and Godthab. I meant to take Alaska but the other just happened to work out, though it hurt Ray and hurt my attempt to get him to back down. He promised me I would get nothing as he had looked at the map and could defend against me for years. DK though was very very happy that someone had finally attacked Ray and sent some funny messages to that effect. This was the first time in several years that I had a clear cut enemy. I owned much of Asia, all of Europe, 3 centers in South America, and 2 in North America, I had total positional advantage on Ray and everyone was still attacking each other, not me. Very odd. I continued with my press with Sroca and Ifni and everyone else that was left, including YSMan. Fortunately for me Ifni opened up a front v Sroca which helped keep everyone’s attention on him, rather than me.

1913

I continued to be ‘too busy’ with Ray to do anything else on the board with anyone. Sroca and YSMan and I entered in a deal where I would accept a 3 way if they could take out Ifni, and I would not help him, though I refused to attack him either given our bargain from 9 years earlier. I basically abandoned South America to them and I spent this year making small gains v Ray and taking over the oceans around North America. Sroca asked me several times for just 1 supporting move, an attack on Turkey, but I refused. Sometime during this time I told Sroca how he could attack Ifni without my help, stepping fleets down to break into the Red Sea eventually so he started that slow process as the only way to advance into the Mid East area. This year was fun for me, for an odd reason, I asked DK to move his fleet north to his old territory, and asked YSMan to leave his 1 final center alone in Peru. We maneuvered DK back and I supported him back into one of his old home centers. I got a kick out of this and, with Ray reeling, I think DK had an enjoyable moment as well.

1914

Took Ray down to 8 centers, and he was moving oddly almost like he was throwing the game. Just not fun for me at all. His moves were always late and I got very frustrated with Drifter since he always seemed to post moves only after Ray got his moves in late. There really was no deadline at all in the game, just whenever Drifter got around to doing the moves.

1915

More of the same, Sroca made advances v Ifni, YSMan took some losses, I took 4 off of Ray, taking him to 4, and Sroca approached me asking if I would draw the game. I had no enemies, diplomacy was down to Sroca and YSMan v Ifni, and I was at peace with both factions. Unless I wanted to solo the game there was really nothing more to do for me. I looked at the board and realized that given the choke points in the oceans, and in the mid east, if I could get Sroca out of the Med I could basically lock up all of the north. I was the only player even close to a solo, and had a huge center count lead on the next closest. Really not much fun, no challenge, and I had already tried to end this game several times before. Of course I went with the draw offer. Surprisingly YSMan said yes ending the final hold out and the game was over.

Observations

No comments on any particular players here in any organized fashion. I liked how DK stayed involved even though he was almost dead. He and Grumpy gave it a solid try attempting to find an ally (me) that was able and willing to attack Ray. My big worry was that in attacking Ray I would get so big that I would force the other players to band together. Instead I waited always within a center or 2 of Ray, so as not to pose too large a target. Instead I worked on being friends with as many players as I could, and that backfired as the game became less enjoyable for me without a challenge. I liked when YSMan brought South Africa back from the dead to get into the Draw. Very well done. Ifni and I managed to spend a game allied, though it was testy at times, even after our deal was made. Perhaps knowing Ifni’s reputation several players contacted me at different times telling me that Ifni was looking for help in organizing an attack on me. After 1907/08 any attack on me would have taken several years to develop given the distances involved but it still created tension between us. Ray, sorry things did not work out. Your decision to tell me you were taking one of my centers did not work out quite the way you expected I suppose, but no hard feelings. You gave me something do to over the last 3 years as I took your centers from you. Initial diplomacy in this game was outstanding, but after a while it became predictable and I don’t think I played well, or with much desire, as a result. Could I have solo’d? Perhaps, but I did not want to take the time to find out.

Funny thing, at one point I made a comment about being tired of the game and someone, Frankx3 maybe, made a comment that did I want to trade spots. I really considered it if only to get out of the game earlier and let someone else finish. I’m glad I stayed in to the end though and that the end was not that far away.

Good game all and Grats to the winners, or drawers, as the case may be ;-)
Avatar courtesy of TheCraw. Many Thanks.
User avatar
Diplomat
 
Posts: 4460
Joined: 30 Jan 2008, 23:00
Location: Anytown, CA
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

Postby gladiator » 08 Nov 2008, 06:17

are there going to be any more of these games? I really want to try it out.
gladiator
 
Posts: 44
Joined: 26 Jul 2008, 04:47
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

Postby Master Radishes » 08 Nov 2008, 11:58

Alright. I'm going to do this mostly from memory, because I'm lazy. Also, I think a lot of this will be directed at Dip. It was his game the entire time, as it so often is with Dip. And seeing as I had the most...complex relationship with him over anyone, I figure we should clear some things up.

Also,my thoughts are jumbled. This was a complex game, especially at the start. Prepare for an essay here...

---

So. Middle East. Kind of cool. Poring over the board, I see how easily I could get boxed in. Messages are sent to Libya, India, Russia, Europe, PR...I think that was it for now. Oh, and Ray, to warn him of DK and Grumpy. I especially worry about Ifni in India there, but he fortunately seems open to the Dip/him/me triple alliance. Who am I to say no? Mende in Europe also seems like a good ally choice, so RadioactiveSushi in Russia becomes the odd man out. It doesn't help that he decides to take Armenia from me. I mean, from ME's point of view that is a guaranteed neutral SC, and Russia should focus elsewhere. Not only does he take it, he moves away from Europe and PR to defend it against my attack on it in the fall. Tsk tsk. Russia was target number one.

Of course, I worried I wouldn't get a second build, which I felt I very much needed as a boxed-in country. So I stupidly decided to take Egypt from Libya (a bit lucky, since I didn't know he'd be moving out). Actually, I don't seem to recall even thinking I'd get it; it was more a defensive thing, since I wasn't sure of him. He did profess to want peace, but he looked too cozy in an alliance with someone (Ghana? I can't remember) and I decided it was best to be a bit aggressive myself. Of course, he didn't like that. Not too bad in itself....but then sroca entered the game.

Vontrappsburg was the original Ghana, but he NMRed and sroca took over. I had an alliance with VT, and he seemed genuine on it. But sroca did not like that idea. And he entered the game right as I weakened Libya, giving him and Frank in Kenya a golden opportunity for a quickly profitable alliance. I had feared that alliance from the start, noting Libya as the weaker sister in the African triangle, but I thought I had it worked out with VT. And now I had no chance to advance beyond Egypt, so I knew it was a matter of time before my foothold in Africa was broken. That Ghana/Kenya alliance affected me for the rest of the game, and ultimately helped cause my downfall. (Helped only, though - Ifni was to blame overall.)

So. Russia is taken care of, Dip and I agree to move next on Europe, and power blocs quickly form. The most threatening one happened to be the NA triple of Grumpy, DK, and Ray. I had warned Ray of those two at the beginning of the game, trying to drive a wedge between them all. Didn't work. Oh well. Ray assured me he didn't trust them completely either. But now that alliance was growing stronger and stronger, and the state of the board left them with no competition (Ifni, Dip, and I were too far away to combat them yet.) So I sent a long message to Ray, outlining a list of reasons why he should stab one of them, and providing excellent examples of how he could do so right that turn. I didn't expect much, but he actually responded favourably, though still a bit hesitant. I leaped at the smell of blood, and got Dip in to encourage him with me. He agreed. Perfect. Of course, I only expected him to stab one of them, like I suggested, and then hold off the other - imagine my surprise when he stabbed BOTH of them...and then continued to roll right over them! DK and especially Grumpy ranted and raved and threatened my demise, but they shouldn't blame me completely - that stab was all Ray. I only suggested it. Well done, Ray. :)

So the NA threat was broken up, but now I faced the mighty Ghana/Kenya duo. I had them trapped on the continent in the north, but Frank was threatening escape into the Indian Ocean. Dip, Ifni, and I agreed we had to bring someone else in on our alliance - Spitfire. And Spit quickly brought in mtgoat as well. The Indian Ocean Trading Company was born. (Was that Dip's name? Can't remember. I think so though, 'cause I found it ironic he was part of an Indian Ocean alliance, despite being way up in the frozen north. ;) ) The IOTC lasted a couple years, in which we blockaded Frank in, and contained the African threat. But as with all big alliances, cracks formed. I don't remember where it started, but I'm pretty sure we can blame Infinity for everything. ;)

So. I had scored Europe, and was busy containing Ghana and Kenya. The IOTC was helping, but was beginning to fragment as well. And Dip continued to stealthily grow stronger and stronger, without making any enemies. A very Dip-like strategy. But then Infinity made a very Infinity-like move as well, and it caused my downfall.

Dip was rather strong, and without enemies, as mentioned. Ifni didn't like this. So he approached me, wanting to open discussion on a possible alliance to cut him down a tad. At first, I didn't like the idea at all, and just about told Infinity as such. But...I don't know, maybe I was affected by the two or three recent games with Dip where he got the better of me with seeming ease. It began to seem like a sensible move. He WAS the strongest, after all, and had nowhere else to go but through one of us, or Ray. No move on Ray, though. Would it be one of us? Was it me?

So I responded to Ifni, cautiously agreeing. I even suggested a couple moves we might make - we were way out of position, but I saw a couple ideas that might just work. Then, due to the limited time for negotiations, I quickly sent missives to Ray and Frank as well. Ray said okay, go for it, but I'm not getting involved. That's fine, didn't need him to. Frank and I had been talking sporadically all game (as well as Sroca and I) about possible alliances. We three were in a stalemate, and a stab needed to occur. Both were willing to talk about it, but it never got past discussion. But now Frank agreed, if India was on board. Perfect. The board was set for a stab on Dip.

Of course, afterwards I immediately began doubting the move. He was too strong, we were too out of position...could it really work? And Dip had been a fine ally all game, and I knew him to be the loyal kind. Why risk losing a good ally? No, I had to call it off with Ifni. If I recall, I even sent a message to him saying as such.

But no, too late. Damage was done. Someone - Frank? Ifni himself? - leaked it to Dip (or he just has great telepathic abilities), and he confronted me about it. Now I was backed into a corner. Do I admit it to him? Ifni hadn't really responded to me yet - was he going to go through with it still? Who the hell do I side with here? I was out of position to attack either one, and I didn't want to lose my allegiance with them either. So I pulled a stupid move - I claimed neutrality. I basically told both of them, do what you want, I'm staying out of it. Of course, Dip read this as a sign of an imminent stab. Can't blame him - I would've done the same. No, I meant it. I wanted to stay out of it, but you should never try to "stay out of it" in Diplomacy. That's always a bad move. The Swiss can do it - Diplomacy players can not. Hell, Dip and I were on the brink of war in our first game together. What brought us into a game-long alliance that led to a dual win? Our neighbour trying to play it neutral and stay out of our affairs.

So Dip made a preemptive stab, and Ifni backed out on his own without telling me. The IOTC crumbled from here on, as did relations with me and Dip. He and I talked for a long time, working things out. He claimed someone (or two someones) had forwarded him messages from me about a stab. I swear I don't know where they came from - I sent the one to Ifni which had little substance to it, and very vague ones to Frank and Ray as well. So Dip didn't trust me at all now, and I had to plead for my life. He backed off then, but the damage was done.

Ifni then turned his devilish wiles in another direction - poor old mtgoat in Australia. Infinity is not a player to like stalemate, it seems, because he was desperate to get out and expand somewhere. He had no real enemies, but just seemed tired of stalemating Kenya. So he decided to turn on Australia. He had no real help, from either Dip or Spit, and made little ground. But now Frank could slowly start to escape. And Yorkshireman continued to be a pain in the ass for Spit, forcing him to split his focus on different fronts. Back home, I was now surrounded by enemies, or untrusting friends. Sroca continued to fight me, Dip was always looking over his shoulder, and Ray sat there and stayed non-committal. I almost was able to break Sroca's lines in northern Africa, but I outguessed myself and made the wrong move, giving him a chance to trap my convoyed army and strengthen his lines.

At this point, mtgoat sent out a pleading message to the ex-IOTC members, minus Infinity, asking for a stab on the latter party. I loved the idea, personally, and Spit seemed willing too. Hell, it would have been easy...if Dip would join that is. But Dip had made a deal with the (Indian) devil. He refused to attack him. We tried to weasel a way out of it, provoking Ifni to attack Dip to break the agreement first, or something, but nothing doing. I think if we had, we all would have benefited greatly from it, and the game would be very different.

But Dip refused. And so my fate was sealed. I had no alliances, only enemies and potential enemies. Dip and I couldn't trust each other; Ifni had turned his back on Africa to fight a stupid war with mtgoat; Spit had problems with YSM; Frank was thereby escaping his African cage, and threatening me; Sroca was just waiting to break free next; Ray refused to commit (although he did at one point choose me over the other two, "accidentally" messing up support for Sroca, which gave me Spain). I had no external powers to turn to, either - NA was Ray's, SA was a mess, mt was engaged with Ifni, and YSM stubborn refused to let up his attack on Spit. Spit and I feebly tried to get something going, but it never materialized, since we were both too weak.

So when Dip urgently messaged me to talk one night, I wasn't surprised to find out of a giant alliance against me. Him, Ifni, Frank, Sroca, and Ray. All my neighbours. Well hey, I was the Austria or Germany, stuck in the middle - it was only a matter of time. Dip did try to send me an olive branch, and I arranged a stab on me by him, which would leave me with options if he chose to side with me in the fall turn. I was playing with fire, allowing him in, but what could I do? It was this, or he stab me anyway, and allow the four others to eat me up as well. I did my best to persuade him that he and I could take all four of them on - and Dip, I still swear we could have; I had all the possibilities worked out to a tee, and I could've held all four of them off, with you off my back.

At this time, I was going away on vacation for a few days. I didn't actually need someone to cover World Dip for me, thanks to a spot of fortunate timing with deadlines, but it would have left me no time to negotiate, a sure factor in persuading Dip to drop me in favour of the grand alliance against me. So I took a gamble, and handed my country over to Dip. My rationale was, either he'd stab me anyway, or he'd feel bad taking advantage of my proxy and leave me alone. I hoped for the latter, but wasn't surprised to come back from vacation to find my country in shambles, with PR armies running rampant in the countryside, raping my women and looting my towns.

I pleaded and wheedled and threatened everyone. (Well, not Ifni - I had broken communications with him long before this.) I would throw the game to Sroca and Frank; I would throw the game to Dip; Frank and Sroca would be let out of their African containment and wreak havoc on the board; Dip would grow too powerful to stop if he ate me up; etc etc. But nah, I was done for, and I knew it. I tried to throw the game to Sroca, but he chose at this time to stab Frank, and became unable to hold back Ifni and Dip at the same time, so that was all for naught in the end. I also half-threw the game to Dip, more out of laziness than anything. Then I died. The end.

---

Diplomat - It was your game the entire way through. I bet you could have soloed it, in fact. I don't know how you managed to never gather any enemies, but you played your game well. Hope some things were cleared up here in the aftermath.

Infinity - Your draw came at the hands of Dip. Not that he would have necessarily stabbed you at any given point, but it was his security at your back thanks to his agreement with you that gave you any sort of chance to continue to expand. Not that you had no say in the matter - your ruthless style of diplomacy worked when it needed to here. But I can't help but feel that if it wasn't for Dip's deal with the devil to never attack you, you would have faced my fate instead of me. Ah well, you played a good game as always, even if I still question a few of your decisions. Well deserved draw.

Spitfire - You played a fine game too, but unfortunately YSM had it out to get you. And Ifni's reckless play and mine and Dip's issues had a far reaching effect too. You deserved better than death.

mtgoat - Same goes for you. A great game played, and I would have loved to take you up on that offer against Ifni. Blame Dip. ;)

Sroca and Frank - I grew to respect you two as enemies. You two proved yourself here as very capable players, despite being virtual unknowns going into the game. Frank, you showed how smart you were building so many fleets so early - you recognized the vast importance of naval power, and it ruined my plans for you. ;) Sroca, I feel if we had worked something out, a formidable alliance would have formed. Too bad.

Ray - Another unknown going in that came out as a site elite. I loved how much it pissed off Grumpy when you stabbed him. :) I only wish you hadn't been so neutral in European affairs. You had more than enough resources to take a hand in them, but you sat it out instead. Too bad you didn't grab a share of the draw, because you deserved one.

Yorkshireman - I said it before, I'll say it again - gusty effort through the game. I don't know how you did it, but the fact that you held on all game at no more than five centres, and then managed to break out at the end and grab a share of the draw...incredible. One of the best performances of the game.

DK - Glad you could hold on, at least. Never gave up, and you gave it a great shot.

Mende - I didn't particularly want to stab you, but Dip was just the better ally (you know...at the time.) Otherwise I thought we'd have made a great alliance.

CowInAPie - Big mistake, stabbing you at the beginning. Compounded by the entrance of sroca to the game, but still, in retrospect, big mistake. Different game, things would've have gone differently.

RadioactiveSushi - Not a big mistake to take you out early, but sorry for your early exist anyway.

khan1234 - Bad luck drawing China; Grumpy - you scared me the most in the early game. Hope you get back here soon; Tommy, Argentinean leaders - don't know what happened there, but sorry for the early exist anyway.


And DRifteR! Thank you once again for such an awesome game. Even despite my death, I had tons of fun - hell, look at how long a report of only 8 or 9 years turned out to be! Brilliant idea putting this on. One of the best moments of site history. :)


Cheers, all.


~MR of ME (and anonymous author of the one edition of the International Inquirer - hey, it was too much work coming up with so many stories each turn!)
Master Radishes
 
Posts: 5927
Joined: 28 Jan 2008, 11:30
Location: London
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1329)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

Postby CowInAPie » 08 Nov 2008, 19:09

Master Radishes wrote:Actually, I don't seem to recall even thinking I'd get it; it was more a defensive thing, since I wasn't sure of him. He did profess to warn peace, but he looked too cozy in an alliance with someone (Ghana? I can't remember) and I decided it was best to be a bit aggressive myself. Of course, he didn't like that.


D=

Master Radishes wrote:CowInAPie - Big mistake, stabbing you at the beginning. Compounded by the entrance of sroca to the game, but still, in retrospect, big mistake. Different game, things would've have gone differently.


Thanks
There are only three things you can't fake, talent, smarts, and an erection
User avatar
CowInAPie
 
Posts: 1627
Joined: 24 May 2008, 18:10
Location: South Carolina, USA
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

Postby sroca » 08 Nov 2008, 20:08

Master Radishes wrote:Sroca, I feel if we had worked something out, a formidable alliance would have formed. Too bad.

I think I found out the issue about that. Basically, immediately after I had gained the position of Ghana, I had to leave, of course, :roll: and for a whole week real time and a whole year game time you were dealing with my friend. If I had seen you as an ally before I left for Bolivia things might have been different because, as I did with Frank, I would have expressly told my friend that you were my ally. Also he wasn't very good at handling press through my account, which might have been why ray didn't want to give me that support in Europe, which probably could have changed the game quite a bit. Anyway if you want to be in the next World Dip. we could give our relationship another try. ;) :lol:
Hebrews 3:7-8a (ESV)
"Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, 'Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts...'"

Please donate funds to the site for its extended operation. Here is the link: http://www.playdiplomacy.com/premium.php
User avatar
sroca
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 1569
Joined: 22 May 2008, 22:30
Location: Georgia, USA
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (1131)
All-game rating: (1133)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

Postby Diplomat » 08 Nov 2008, 20:18

Just to be clear, as I noted, turning on MR and feeling I was manipulated into it soured this game for me. With 17 players there are no secrets, at least twice more I got word that Ifni was planning something or talking to someone about attacking me, and he and I exchanged harsh words over it at one point, but it never appeared. His reputation makes those moves a possibility at any time which is tough for him, especially if he plans nothing at all.

No knock on Ifni but I was looking for anything at all from you MR, anything, and we could have sided over India instead of taking out Mid East. I still think it was the better option strategically. We even messaged each other as I recall, including Ifni, about holding off due to that reason but, as I noted, I was not going to attack Ifni and I felt that, if he started in on you, that would release Sroca and Frank. I agree Ifni is not one for stalemates, and this one had a number of them for him. Yet I don't see a better way for India to expand that the seas, the land territories are just to far away and easily blocked.

I wanted to bring Spit in for several years, but bringing MT in was a mistake because it gave Ifni no where to go. Then I made the mistake about saying Ifni was the weak link in the agreement, and I think he took it as if I thought he was the weakest player. Not true at all. I meant it as the IOTC gave him the fewest options to expand, at least until Eastern Africa would open up for him.

I was actually disappointed in Spit at the end for basically abandoning the game. That at the tone of the messages I got about my deal with Ifni, which I was very up front about with everyone, was not too kind. Ifni will tell you that what he basically got was a No Attack deal, he did not get a permanent 'alliance' because we divided up the world and agreed to stay out of each others back yards, and he must have felt the most alone on the board. We just did not share common goals and targets, with a good alliance must have. Though I did break that a bit when I went into South America he could do nothing about it and he couldn't get there even at that point so I did not worry. I helped him against MT really only to get MT to stop sending messages to everyone :-) and not for any desire to see Ifni grow stronger. Even while I was attacking Ray, except at the end, I was talking to him. Only when his PMs got insulting and did I stop reading them and responding. I was at 25 centers and friends with everyone on the board except Ray, who had no friends at all. It was an odd situation. Even though I was Ifni's only ally that lasted through the game I was not a very good ally to him since I felt he had hoodwinked me regarding MR, I'm interested to see his AAR to see if this is the case.

I think the game is both too big, and too small. Too big in that there are soo many players that the possibilities for leaks, alliances and stabs is enormous, yet everyone plays a game with the folks next door. Only a couple of the players tried to form relations with everyone in the game, and only MR and I, that I know of anyway (MR with Ray and Sroca and I) formed agreements that ended up breaking up the alliance structures that formed early. The game is too small in that the board is very limiting. With about 20 units any northern power can lock up the northern territories. Same with the south. I was basically untouchable after a certain point, unless Ray had turned on me. And I did everything I could to make sure that did not happen and, when it did, I punished him for it.

Good to see your post MR and thanks again for the game. Who was it that said if you are lukewarm you get spat out? Ifni, can you source that quote for me :?:
Avatar courtesy of TheCraw. Many Thanks.
User avatar
Diplomat
 
Posts: 4460
Joined: 30 Jan 2008, 23:00
Location: Anytown, CA
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

Postby sroca » 08 Nov 2008, 22:05

gladiator wrote:are there going to be any more of these games? I really want to try it out.

Probably but someone needs to volunteer to be the game manager first.
Hebrews 3:7-8a (ESV)
"Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, 'Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts...'"

Please donate funds to the site for its extended operation. Here is the link: http://www.playdiplomacy.com/premium.php
User avatar
sroca
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 1569
Joined: 22 May 2008, 22:30
Location: Georgia, USA
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (1131)
All-game rating: (1133)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

Postby Master Radishes » 08 Nov 2008, 23:37

sroca wrote:I think I found out the issue about that. Basically, immediately after I had gained the position of Ghana, I had to leave, of course, :roll: and for a whole week real time and a whole year game time you were dealing with my friend.

Ah. Interesting. Oh well - we'll take 'em all out next time. :)

sroca wrote:Probably but someone needs to volunteer to be the game manager first.

I would. I could probably run Crowded Dip at the same time, since I have very few games of my own going on right now. But if someone else desperately wants to do it... ;)

Dip - yes, that whole fiasco soured the game for me a bit too. I'll pin the blame on me trying to claim neutrality. If I had just been honest and told you straight out, things no doubt would've gone differently. (Although, as much as I wouldn't have minded attacking Infinity with you, I was rather out of position to be able to do so.)

Also, I do remember you wanting to bring Spit in on it. I did too, but wasn't it also Ifni there that hesitated? Although, I'll admit I didn't think we needed Spit just yet either, so I didn't press the issue or anything. And I agree about Mt - blocking Ifni in was not a smart move. But I was thinking we wouldn't have had such a problem with Frank, and he'd be able to grab a bit in Africa to stay satisfied. I agreed with you then, too, that he was in the weakest position, although he was far from the weakest player. So basically, we had the same game view, but Ifni drove a wedge between us, manipulative bastard that he is. :)
Master Radishes
 
Posts: 5927
Joined: 28 Jan 2008, 11:30
Location: London
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1329)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: World Diplomacy AARs and Discussion

Postby Diplomat » 09 Nov 2008, 02:58

Damn him to Infinity ;)
Avatar courtesy of TheCraw. Many Thanks.
User avatar
Diplomat
 
Posts: 4460
Joined: 30 Jan 2008, 23:00
Location: Anytown, CA
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-8

Next

Return to Game 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest