No weekends game: Retreat phase led to NMR

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No weekends game: Retreat phase led to NMR

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 28 Jan 2019, 04:18

No weekends game - Retreat processing led to shorter deadline and NMR.

PM me for the game number, as it’s Gunboat. The game was set up as 24/24/24 with no weekends.

Spring resolved at 0800 GMT on Jan 25. The next listed deadline (for Spring Retreats) was 0800 GMT on Jan 28, after the weekend. I had no retreat to enter, so I reasonably expected to be able to ignore my phone at least until tonight.

HOWEVER, the Retreat phase processed at 23:48 on the 26th, and it scheduled the fall turn to process at 23:48 on the 27th.

That’s over 8 hours earlier, and it isn’t even past the weekend in GMT.

No deadline should ever be set prior to the end of the previous turn’s deadline, regardless of who does or doesn’t finalize. That is especially true when all turns are set to the same length. If you see X number of hours before orders are due, you should be able to trust that you won’t NMR until at least those X hours are up.
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Re: No weekends game: Retreat phase led to NMR

Postby super_dipsy » 28 Jan 2019, 07:55

All exceptions (Weekends, specific days, pauses) work the same way; all it means is that a deadline will not be set in the exception period but will be moved outside the exception period. Turns CAN process in the period but only if all players with actions decide to finalize. That is the way it is supposed to work, because that allowsplayers to choose to override an exception if they all choose to do so.

However, that should not mean the next turn can have a deadline INSIDE the exception period. If that has happened, that is definitely a bug, The decision to shift the deadline is completely separate from whether the previous turn was finalized and processed in an exception period. I will take a look and try to work out what exactly happened, because what you describe shouldn't be possible.
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Re: No weekends game: Retreat phase led to NMR

Postby super_dipsy » 28 Jan 2019, 08:24

Ah, OK. Of course the time you gave was GMT and the server is on GMT+!, so it sees 23:48 GMT on 27th as 00:48 on 28th ie not in the weekend. So that bit is working right in that the deadline was not set in the exception period. When the Retreat processed, the new deadline was calculated and since it did not fall in the exception period it was not adjusted. There have been numerous debates about the issue of a time period being caculated in server time, but in the end there is no other sensible choice. If you decide to move it eg to UK time, or LA time, or Sydney time or whatever, someone is going to have a problem with it. The only solution would be to make sure that 'weekend' meant any time that could be a weekend anywhere, but that would mean that weekend exception meant a 4 day gap! So we go with server time.

That answers the bit about whether the deadline was set in an exception period or not. However, you also raise a fair question about whether we should artifically alter the deadline based on what the previous deadline was for activity. In other words, should we remember the previous deadline time and make sure that any new deadline does not fall before then. That would be possible of course. Retreat and Build phases are tricky of course because they can process without every player approving since they do not wait for people who have no actions to take.

I would suggest we just change the exception functionality to forbid a deadline being earlier than a previous one, but thinking about it I don't think it is quite as clear cut as it may seem. You suggest that we should simply set a rule that
NoPunIn10Did wrote:No deadline should ever be set prior to the end of the previous turn’s deadline, regardless of who does or doesn’t finalize.
I'm not sure about that. For example, if you are playing with 5 day moves but 1 day retreats, if you shoose to finalize your moves (all players agreeing) after the first day of an orders phase, you would have to wait at least 4 days for the retreat phase (unless people finalize of course). I think the case is stronger if we just limit the restriction to exception periods, but even then it seems there may be arguments on both sides.

I think the best route is to raise this as a Suggestion and get inputs. I will go ahead and raise something.

And by the way, I do sympathize with your situation. I can well understand why you felt it was reasonable to expect you would not need to do anything before Monday morning.
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