game 138093, Versailles: draw proposals [NO BUG]

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game 138093, Versailles: draw proposals [NO BUG]

Postby rickguill » 13 Jan 2018, 12:16

This game has reached Spring 1939. Four major powers remain and a draw has been proposed. Two minor powers are still in the game, but both are associated with major powers that are also still in the game. Three major powers and their associated minor powers have been eliminated.

The draw proposal shows, however, all seven major powers as having a vote, despite the fact that three of these powers have been eliminated as both major and minor powers. My understanding is that once a power is eliminated as both a major and minor power, then that power is dead and has no vote in a draw. Is this correct or have I misunderstood something.

Many thanks,

Rickguill
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Re: game 138093, Versailles - Party of 7: draw proposals

Postby gareth66 » 13 Jan 2018, 12:38

I’ve not looked at the game (so this question is not intended to convey anything I “know”), but the obvious question to ask is, how do you know for sure that all the remaining minors are associated with remaining majors?
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Re: game 138093, Versailles - Party of 7: draw proposals

Postby rickguill » 13 Jan 2018, 12:56

Reasonable question. There are two remaining minor powers: Spain and Czechoslovakia. My major power is Italy and Spain is my minor power. That means that there is only one minor power where I lack certain knowledge. Given that there are four major powers in the game, even if the remaining minor power does not belong to one of the remaining major powers, then there should be a maximum of five powers remaining and eligible to take part in the draw.

As for Czechoslovakia, Poland has long since admitted that this is the associated minor power and game play for somewhile confirms that this is the most likely scenario.

Thanks,

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Re: game 138093, Versailles - Party of 7: draw proposals

Postby gareth66 » 13 Jan 2018, 18:13

There is no bug. Here are the rules governing draw proposals in Versailles games, in case you have not found them:

Draw proposals can include any number of the 14 countries, but the proposal will always be announced as having come from the major power of the pair. major powers only are listed in the voting. Players get ONE vote on the draw that can be cast by either their major or minor country, but the vote is only announced and registered against the major country. This ensures anonymity is protected as much as possible. Note that this may mean a country that is 'dead' appearing on the voting list. For example, a player controls France and Sweden; France is dead and gone but Sweden is still alive. When Sweden responds to the draw offer, it is announced and registered as a vote for France. This still conceals which minor country is associated with France / the player. If a draw proposal is agreed, finishing the game, the draw is processed as a normal draw would be between the number of PLAYERS in the draw proposal ( not powers). So if either one or both your countries are included in the draw, YOU are in the draw. A 14-country draw will be processed as a 7-way draw (since all 7 players will have countries in the draw). You get no additional benefit from having both your major and minor power in the draw. Note also that apparently dead countries can be included in draw proposals since they could be dormant rather than dead and could later come back to life. The only restriction is that Surrendered countries can never be included in a draw proposal.
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Re: game 138093, Versailles: draw proposals [NO BUG]

Postby rickguill » 13 Jan 2018, 19:25

Apologies for probably being stupid but I had already read the rules governing draw proposals and am still not sure I understand them.

If a major power and the associated minor power are both eliminated then surely both are dead rather than dormant. In the case of our game, who needs to agree to the draw proposal?

Thanks,

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Re: game 138093, Versailles: draw proposals [NO BUG]

Postby gareth66 » 13 Jan 2018, 19:30

As with all draw proposals on the site, players who remain active in the game all have to agree to any draw proposal, whether they are included in it or not. Eliminated players play no part in draw proposals. In the case of Versailles, an eliminated player is one who has been eliminated from both powers.

In your game, the draw has been proposed by one player and has been accepted by one other. There are more than two active players remaining in the game, and the draw will not proceed until all active players have voted. That is why your draw proposal is still “live”.
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Re: game 138093, Versailles: draw proposals [NO BUG]

Postby rickguill » 13 Jan 2018, 19:40

Many thanks for the explanation.

Best wishes.

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