3 Ways to Deceive People without Lying

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Re: 3 Ways to Deceive People without Lying

Postby jay65536 » 24 Aug 2020, 17:16

Groo wrote:
Here is an example. Let’s say you are England and you know your first target isn’t going to be Russia. You’d like to keep the peace with Russia, but you might also be concerned that Russia would come to the aid of your first target. That is the sort of situation where you’d want to try to equivocate. Telling Russia outright that you don’t want them to know who you’re targeting might be off-putting; you might want a more diplomatic way of getting out of revealing too much. That is my interpretation of what the article is about.

This is so basic and intuitive, Jay...I mean if you need an article to explain that to you, maybe Diplomacy isn't for you in the first place? (I don't mean you personally, of course :D)


Not every article aims high all the time. It's not an inherent flaw in the writing.
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Re: 3 Ways to Deceive People without Lying

Postby BrotherBored » 29 Aug 2020, 23:28

jay65536 wrote:
Groo wrote:
Here is an example. Let’s say you are England and you know your first target isn’t going to be Russia. You’d like to keep the peace with Russia, but you might also be concerned that Russia would come to the aid of your first target. That is the sort of situation where you’d want to try to equivocate. Telling Russia outright that you don’t want them to know who you’re targeting might be off-putting; you might want a more diplomatic way of getting out of revealing too much. That is my interpretation of what the article is about.

This is so basic and intuitive, Jay...I mean if you need an article to explain that to you, maybe Diplomacy isn't for you in the first place? (I don't mean you personally, of course :D)


Not every article aims high all the time. It's not an inherent flaw in the writing.


Hahaha! I appreciate your point Groo. As someone who has coached dozens of new players by now, I think I can say unequivocally that nothing about Diplomacy is so basic or intuitive that I take for granted that a new player understands it. (Every time I assume...I learn that I shouldn't have.)
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Re: 3 Ways to Deceive People without Lying

Postby Groo » 06 Sep 2020, 16:32

BrotherBored wrote:Hahaha! I appreciate your point Groo. As someone who has coached dozens of new players by now, I think I can say unequivocally that nothing about Diplomacy is so basic or intuitive that I take for granted that a new player understands it. (Every time I assume...I learn that I shouldn't have.)


Haha, Indeed! We have a saying in my country: "The assumption is the mother of all fuckups."

I guess I assumed (and based on Dirty Harry's comment it was a "valid assumption") the article was indeed intended to aim high. But I do understand how hard it is to write a comprehensive guide that "works" for all levels of play. I mean, it's near impossible without going into generalizations.

By the way, how is coaching going for you? Are there a lot of people looking for Diplomacy Coaching and where do these folk go? I remember I started on playdip playing a mentor game and reading the materials provided by the mentor, but I never stumbled upon a coach or coaching website.
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need."

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Re: 3 Ways to Deceive People without Lying

Postby BrotherBored » 19 Sep 2020, 14:48

Groo wrote:
BrotherBored wrote:By the way, how is coaching going for you? Are there a lot of people looking for Diplomacy Coaching and where do these folk go? I remember I started on playdip playing a mentor game and reading the materials provided by the mentor, but I never stumbled upon a coach or coaching website.


I’ve been coaching/mentoring Diplomacy players for about 3 years. Some players who find me are brand new, but others are experienced and looking to take their game to the next level.

About 1/2 of people who reach out to me last a couple of weeks and move on. But some I have continued to teach for months or years, with the level of attention waxing and waning.

I started offering hour-long one-on-one video tutoring for my high-tier Patreon sponsors, and I have had about 3 people at that level at any given time. I created that benefit after a fan who I offered to coach for free (as I usually do) said that he wanted a more serious approach. And then others followed suit, to my surprise and delight!

My discord server is fairly active, with a mix of top online players, average players, and some beginners. And we don’t only chat about Diplomacy, haha. More than one person has said my approach is more like life coaching than about Diplomacy specifically. (I take that as a compliment.)

You can find out more at my Patreon, but also if you use Discord you can message me for an invite (BrotherBored#1999).

I think coaching other players has made me a much, much stronger player because I have learned so much about how other players think. This allows me to find common mistakes to exploit, or appeals that persuade.
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Re: 3 Ways to Deceive People without Lying

Postby jay65536 » 20 Sep 2020, 00:55

It is also just a fact that teaching anything helps you learn it better.
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