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Re: Best Moves Wanted for Diplomacy Master Class

PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 17:23
by Mr Aedron
Hi Marotta,

First off, please know that you are the number one problem in all our gunboat games. Dunno how many more I'd have soloed without you :D one day I'll catch you ;)

Secondly, I agree with Marotta that gunboat is a great school. It forces you to think much further ahead strategically as there is no way to actively push other players to do mistakes. Still learning every time.

On the core topic itself, I think the only difference is that defensive openings (with Burgundy, the channel, *not* Armenia, etc) become more serious options.

But that answer is not worth an in-depth discussion :? If I see anything interesting, I'll post it here!

Re: Best Moves Wanted for Diplomacy Master Class

PostPosted: 13 Jul 2019, 00:26
by Groo
marotta wrote:Backgroud
For now, I would like to limit this class to Tactics useful in a gunboat game. PRESS Diplomacy is closer to psychology and how to stroke egos and lie well. I may let someone else do that Master Class.

The thing is, the same principle works in gunboat. Only you lie with your moves, not words.

Re: Best Moves Wanted for Diplomacy Master Class

PostPosted: 14 Jul 2019, 04:23
by marotta
Phlegmatic, THANK YOU!

Game 154386 was a truly beautiful game.

For those who wan to review just the portion discussed, start at the Fall 1911 build. England has 17 supply center. There are a couple of moves to prove that everything is deadlocked. Then in Fall 1913 England begins gently backing off. In Spring 1914 he gives up TUN, losing a unit to Turkey and giving Turkey a build.

In Fall 1915 he puts a fleet in STP so it can't threaten MOS. Then shifts everything to the east.

In Fall 1917 he gives up STP to Russia to keep the game alive, knowing he can always take it back. And he gives up MUN to Austria, which he cannot always take back.

By Spring 1925 Turkey has sufficient builds to warrant a full attack on Russia. And every turn from that point forward is a wide open game again.

The fact that you and England played to a draw is a great achievement. There were moments I thought either of you had a chance at soloing. A very brave and beautiful game. THANK YOU for sharing it.

I have not understood why players, when they have near 17 supply centers and are in a deadlocked position, don't back off and give the second largest player time to eliminate some of the smaller players. It is very tricky to do properly. And it is fraught with troubles. But for me, I can lose points for a 3-way draw and always lose points for a 4-way draw. And who knows what might happen? A player might NMR. A player might quit the game. There are many things that can go wrong for the other side. And if you are consistent, you just might solo!

We need a good name or saying for this wisdom. What do you think? What is most memorable, cute, and descriptive...?

The Backoff
The Withdraw
The Stand Down
The largest player should back off from a draw.
withdraw rather than draw
The board leader should withdraw from a deadlock.
Never say draw.

Re: Best Moves Wanted for Diplomacy Master Class

PostPosted: 14 Jul 2019, 20:34
by Mr Aedron
Hi Marotta,

Another idea, how about explaining *fully* a couple of turns in midgame?

So I am talking analyzing the tactics, strategy, diplomacy behind each move. Then you could explain how you weight them and why.

And finally, from there, you could create you lexicon of tactical moves.

Should you analyze 3/4 games, pretty sure you'd cover most of the important gunboat concepts.

Happy to review games with you if it helps.

Mr Aedron