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Replacing a Surrendered Country

PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018, 17:10
by willie23
Hello all,

I have some questions about certain situations I have encountered in games where I replace surrendered country’s.

I have replaced surrendered countrys a couple of times so far in my Diplomacy career. One game, that is now finished, I jumped in as a 4 Center Russia in maybe Fall of 02, but he had lost Sev and gained another Center somewhere else. Anyway, I made a very active effort in the game and reached out to every other player to see how things were. It turns out that my predecessor had not spoken to anyone or replied to messages and thus an alliance had developed against him. When I stepped in and made an effort it didn’t really matter as everyone already had their plans. The same thing happened again when I stepped in in Fall of 01 for Turkey. He had been silent and thus an alliance if I/A/R developed against him. I sent a message to all players and learned of the alliance from Germany, and the order history seemed to back up this story. I still messaged all players and tried to turn things around, but Italy, Russia and Austria continued to bring the attack on. Some lucky moves kept them at bay, but it didn’t matter in the end.

So my question is this: how do you turn things in your favor during a game in which you have replaced a silent surrendered country? How do you keep an alliance at bay that made the easy choice to destroy the quiet guy?

Does anybody enjoy taking in surrendered countrys, because I have found that it is a waste of time. I think that starting a new game is the best bet. Am I wrong? Is there some way to convince people to turn on their allies in the above situation?

Thanks,
Willie

Re: Replacing a Surrendered Country

PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018, 17:47
by sinnybee
1) Read the PP and look at the order history before joining the game.
2) Only join a game where you feel you can be a benefit/asset to the game. If there already seems to be an alliance against the surrendered position, don't join that position. If, on the other hand, there seems to be a lot of chaos in the game in general, and you can bring order and give plans to other players that may be without a cause, then join, and fill the alliance void that the game may have.
3) Use a ratings shield and do your best, while knowing that it doesn't matter if you lose.

Re: Replacing a Surrendered Country

PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018, 18:04
by V
Firstly, yes I thoroughly enjoy taking surrendered positions & have at least 3 solos (that I can remember, probably more) from these games.
When considering taking one, look carefully at the board to anticipate before joining the game that there is at least one significant participant who is likely to want you as an ally. If it is in nobody’s interest to ally with the newly surrendered nation, don’t join. It is not about the number of SC’s/units etc. It is the strategic position & can you be of value to someone else thereby justifying an alliance. From there have fun, message everyone lots & win!

Best Regards V

Re: Replacing a Surrendered Country

PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018, 18:12
by hedge trimmer
Sometimes you slowing down the attackers before getting eliminated will help/make the game more enjoyable for someone on the other side of the map, as otherwise the alliance that's wiping you out would grow too quickly, so it's not completely pointless to join just to get destroyed.

Of course that's not very fun for you.

Re: Replacing a Surrendered Country

PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018, 19:23
by Nanook
There's always a point! Sometimes, as Malachite says, the point is just to keep the game balanced. In a less altruistic sense though, sometimes you can make a real difference. One of my few solos came from a surrendered position where I was able to turn a country with no allies around, and in another game I joined late I was able to resurrect a country from a rough spot to being the dominant power and it took me losing a couple tossups for the other players to stop a solo bid. So it can be done--you do have to work extra hard most of the time though, it's not enough just to send messages, you have to work overtime to make people WANT to work with you--remember, you're playing catch up, everyone else has had time to acclimate to each other, so you have to be twice as persuasive to get them to do what you want.


The short version is: yes, there's a point to it, both for altruism and for personal gain.

Re: Replacing a Surrendered Country

PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018, 19:25
by Nanook
Oh, and to add on belatedly--if you have a ratings shield, it can give you the freedom to do some stuff you might otherwise not try. Always wanted to go for the I/T alliance but been wary of it? Here's a risk free chance to go for it! It's a great way to train yourself to play more aggressively in general too, as you have nothing to lose with a rating shield, so you can take more risks...and figure out which risks are worth taking, and which less so.

Re: Replacing a Surrendered Country

PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018, 19:37
by Jack007
willie23 wrote:...
So my question is this: how do you turn things in your favor during a game in which you have replaced a silent surrendered country? How do you keep an alliance at bay that made the easy choice to destroy the quiet guy?
...


Make them an offer they can't refuse. :mrgreen:

Re: Replacing a Surrendered Country

PostPosted: 17 Mar 2019, 03:25
by Pete the Great
So my question is this: how do you turn things in your favor during a game in which you have replaced a silent surrendered country? How do you keep an alliance at bay that made the easy choice to destroy the quiet guy?

Does anybody enjoy taking in surrendered country's, because I have found that it is a waste of time. I think that starting a new game is the best bet. Am I wrong? Is there some way to convince people to turn on their allies in the above situation?


I have picked up 3 abandoned games in my short time here, and enjoyment is in the eyes of the player.
* In one I picked up Austria being rushed by RIT, mainly because the surrendered player never communicated. Though I was quickly reduced to 1 center, the game was very enjoyable as I developed a friendship with the Italian player and assisted him in taking out both Russia and Turkey as a 1 center vassel. The game ended in a 4 way I/E/F/G draw, but I was included in some of the draw proposals prior to the final agreement.
* In another I picked up 3 very scattered German units (1 each in Italy, Austria and Russia w/ none adjacent) and almost made it back to my home SC's with one of my armies before being destroyed. That was less fun but a good learning experience, as I was learning the interface of playdip as a new on-line player and brushing off 30 years of rust for Diplomacy tactics and order writing.
* The third is still active and I am playing a power I have rarely played, so I won't comment further other than to say I expect it to be both a good learning experience and enjoyable.

Regarding how to break up the on rush of 2 or 3 players coming at you: 1) try promising to fight one while giving all your centers to the other, unless......(fill in your conditions). This can give the on rushing armies pause and open communications. 2) Flood their inboxes with lots of messages. If any of the oncoming players are decent they will reply.