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The Fake Lepanto

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 20:19
by Maddest of Matts
I have played some games but I have always noticed that getting Italy to stab Austria is the easiest thing in the world, same with Russia! I don't know if it is Austria's lack of communication but it always goes something like this: Italy stabs Austria, Turkey attacks Austria, Russia attacks Austria, Germany fights France, and England either goes for Germany, France, or Russia. Even in the 1 game I played Italy I stabbed Austria as soon as I got Spain and Portugal when I agreed to be ally's! So I am just wondering if any of you have experienced a Lepanto that survived for longer than 1902 or is the fake Lepanto just much better for Italy?

Re: The Fake Lepanto

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 21:30
by Don Juan of Austria
However difficult it might be to resist the temptation of stabbing your nearest neighbor by fooling him to move out of Trieste, it usually proves fatal (in my experience), for Italy. ;) Later on though, you'll practically need it to, if you want to solo.

Re: The Fake Lepanto

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 22:16
by condude1
Austria's center rich and easy to kill. There's no reason for his neighbours, barring Germany, to not attack him.

Re: The Fake Lepanto

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 23:53
by VGhost
I'm not a huge fan of the "Lepanto" openings either as Italy or as Austria.

As Austria, especially in the traditional passage-through-Trieste version, I have found Italy is usually all too willing to listen to the siren song of others urging the stab, even if he meant to go through with the alliance to begin with. And foreign units in Venice and Serbia isn't great either.

As Italy, a unit in Trieste causes diplomatic problems - either you're lying to everybody else, you're lying to Austria, or you're openly admitting your alliance and at least a temporary unwillingness to negotiate. And if Italy is going to attack Austria right away, you need to make sure you're actually going to get pressure on Russia immediately from England and/or Germany, else all those gains vanish pretty quickly. I don't know if I've ever seen an early Italian attack on Austria successfully transition into an IT, though I assume it's happened.

On the other hand, yeah, you're going to want those Austrian centers eventually if you're trying to solo. So putting off the attack too long can be a problem. Hitting Austria after securing Iberia sounds about right, but I'd expect that to be 1904-ish.

Re: The Fake Lepanto

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 23:57
by valent
Italy is particularly weak. Austria is particularly vulnerable. Finding a way forward together helps. That's why I like lepanto. But, alas, I don't see it working all that well

Re: The Fake Lepanto

PostPosted: 07 Nov 2016, 00:32
by springbutt46
The only "Lepanto" I have ever seen actually succeed was when the players who played Italy and Austria were two friends who had been close for a long time. In our group that played Diplomacy it was just known that if those two were ever in countries next to each other they formed an alliance that was unbreakable every time. It was as close to a pre-arranged alliance as could ever be seen but since we always picked out of a hat it was always by the book. They eventually split the board, green on the left, red on the right.
I have never used the Lepanto and likely never will.

Re: The Fake Lepanto

PostPosted: 07 Nov 2016, 02:15
by Carebear
Used Key Lepanto first or second game here with complete unknown. We took it to two way draw.

Re: The Fake Lepanto

PostPosted: 07 Nov 2016, 07:35
by I Love Italy
condude1 wrote:Austria's center rich and easy to kill. There's no reason for his neighbours, barring Germany, to not attack him.


Yeah. Sorry about that. You tried your best ;)

Carebear wrote:Used Key Lepanto first or second game here with complete unknown. We took it to two way draw.


Well, you're special, Carebear.

Re: The Fake Lepanto

PostPosted: 07 Nov 2016, 08:26
by Morg
As Italy I've enjoyed the Lepanto.

It keeps Austria focused on other things. An Austrian player with no Navy does not have an easy time taking either the Italian nor the Anatolian peninsulas. I've rarely felt the need to stab Austria after a successful Lepanto and any stabbing in that scenario is all in Italy's hands.

I've taken a game as Italy into a 3-player draw with Austria. I would've whittled it down more, but Austria, although faithful, never spoke to me the whole game.

Re: The Fake Lepanto

PostPosted: 07 Nov 2016, 08:37
by Carebear
I Love Italy wrote:
Carebear wrote:Used Key Lepanto first or second game here with complete unknown. We took it to two way draw.


Well, you're special, Carebear.

Ssshhh, not too loud. Wouldn't want Drumpf to make fun of me.