Communicating with your enemy

[historygamer]

I'm often astounded by the lack of patience I see in these games, and the tendency of some players to stab you without any long range game plan.

Message for younger players...some of us old coots don't just roll into a fetal position and die when attacked. We bide our time...reach out to other players...try to hold on until the winds change...and then sometimes re-establish relationships with former enemies, because it is in the best interest of all parties. To me, that's where the fun lies in the game....managing the ebb and flow...

It's a long game...which is why it is foolish to stop talking to people...just realize that sometimes you really need to have a little distance before you reach out to someone you may have stabbed. Don't try to justify your action. Let your own game plan evolve, and if things don't work out as you wanted, get back in touch with a current enemy, if you can show how it will be in both parties' interests that working together makes sense.

Wise words. In fact all the posts on this thread have me nodding in agreement.

However what can you do when the guy you just attacked is a long term friend (and therefore bitter rival), who only wants to see your downfall anyay?

Perhaps a campaign of letters? I find myself giving up and getting on with talking to everyone around him. Thats the trouble: communication is a two way thing - if the guy don't wanna talk its really difficult.

I prefer games with experienced players as most of us will recognise that alliances and agreements come and go in seasons and we are there to adapt accordingly.

[gsmx]

If you're really good you've been talking to him all along. The best way to hook an enemy is to take the time to work out a very plausible plan where it truly could make a lot of sense to work together. Sometimes these efforts work out so well you actually go ahead with them rather then just use it as bait it was intended for.

[Petunia]

My problem is that I'm a deceitful and awful person. My first message following a stab is usually a conciliatory one designed to produce a situation conducive to driving the knife that much deeper the following turn. After a brutal stab, a sincerely wholehearted apology, two days working out a plan to get the relationship back on the right track both diplomatically and on the board, and another even more heinous stab, there is just no coming back. In terms of number of players I'm in regular communication with, pretty much all my games follow the same steadily-decreasing graph. Starts at 6, falls off one by one as Powers are eliminated or I stab them so viciously that they just put me on ignore. I've treated people so badly (in the game only - never personal) that they're not willing to play with me even in late-game stop-solo alliances. C'est la vie.

[Piquinya]

My problem is that I'm a deceitful and awful person. My first message following a stab is usually a conciliatory one designed to produce a situation conducive to driving the knife that much deeper the following turn. After a brutal stab, a sincerely wholehearted apology, two days working out a plan to get the relationship back on the right track both diplomatically and on the board, and another even more heinous stab, there is just no coming back. In terms of number of players I'm in regular communication with, pretty much all my games follow the same steadily-decreasing graph. Starts at 6, falls off one by one as Powers are eliminated or I stab them so viciously that they just put me on ignore. I've treated people so badly (in the game only - never personal) that they're not willing to play with me even in late-game stop-solo alliances. C'est la vie.

+1 karma LoL

I'll have to keep this in mind next time we play together

[Petunia]

Yep. And because I know you to be a good player, you're not a good candidate for the 'long-term alliance and stab for 18' category of ally, so I'd likely be planning to hit you hard by 1904 or 1905 or so.

Story time:
In 55579 as France I spent 1901 attacking both my neighbors. I opened to the Channel and in Fall pointlessly ordered the fleet to Belgium, knowing Germany was supporting himself there. But because Russia had opened north, I represented war against England and got Germany to get Russia to agree to attack Norway in 1902 despite needing the units to fend off Turkey. Then I apologized to England and laid out the 'only viable plan' towards re-starting our alliance against Germany, which involved him moving NTH-HEL and retreating Norway to SKA while I stabbed Germany for Belgium... then England destroying his Lvp/IRI fleet... followed by England supporting me to the North Sea, with both of his fleets on the wrong side and just one army at home. While Germany destroyed the English fleet in HEL and drove me out of Burgundy, I moved to IRI and Russia slipped into NWG, allowing me to capture both Lvp and Lon in F03 while Germany re-took Belgium from me 'by force', evening us up at 7 centers apiece and leaving England just one, which I hadn't committed to helping anyone take from him. So I immediately stabbed Italy, of course.

One of my favorite sequences I've ever played. Quicker takedown of England than is usually possible and left the entire world thinking that Germany and I were still at war or at least that I was a total loose cannon who would attack him 'again' at any time regardless, since I had been attacking both him and England on most turns through the first three years. He had been in on the whole thing of course.

The only real flaw in the plan was that Germany was so appalled at my capacity for deceit that he never trusted me again and I could never get far enough to beat a three-way with him and Turkey, who had been kicking Russia's ass all along.

Anyway, the (semi-)relevant point is: I lied to England about my opening to get into ENG, apologized and lied again to try to get a cheap foothold in Wales or IRI, when I failed to guess correctly there, apologized and drew up a complicated master plan that gave me the opportunity for a devastating stab against England OR a fairly decent one against Germany. If either of them had got cold feet about my plan or spent a little more time comparing notes with each other, I'd have been out of that game so fast.

The way I regained England's trust after the first two lies and attacks was to harshly criticize Germany's play to that point, while complimenting England's (to England). I was really a dick about it, too. So that's one way to answer the original question in this thread.

[DirtyHarry]

Well, I'm new-ish to the site and and just found this story by Petunia. Absolutely Fantastic! I have the opposite question that is answered by the thread - but I can't get into it now because it's an active game. I'll pop back in when the game is finished and ask the other side of the question ...