1900 04' Spring

GM: Snoopymate25. 3-way draw - Diplomat (Austria) / Doctor Benway (Turkey) / Dunam (Italy)

Re: 1900 04' Spring

Postby lotr_freak » 11 Feb 2009, 22:27

The link to the map is below. Please go there and then return and tell me where you see Macedonia North Coast designated anywhere on the map.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2635&start=0

Page 6 of the 4th ed (pub. 2000) is germane to this discussion in 2 places where it states very clearly:

Restricted movement
Any location on the mapboard that is not named cannot be occupied....

Specific Movement Clarifications
...Bulgaria, Spain, and St Petersburg: These are the only costal provinces that have two separately identified coasts . A fleet entering one of these provinces enters along one coast and can then move to a province adjacent to that coast only.



Now I think everyone will agree that the first map we were shown does not include an identified coast for Mac NC. If you don't agree do let me know please.

Once you concede that fact (as you must) then you should then concede that the change that later DID identify a Mac NC was never voted on or addressed in any way. Therefor before we vote on anything to be changed now, if voting is what needs to be done, then we need to go back and vote for that change which introduced a designated coast by mistake. Why you ask? Well clearly


I agree that we never voted on, or agreed on officially identifying a Mac NC. Therefore, as the rules clearly state, a fleet unit could not move there, since it is not clearly identified. Nevertheless, while it may be true that a fleet could not move there, it is also true that that unnamed coast prevented a unit, whether fleet or army, from moving straight from Con to Bul, or vice versa.

As to

I hope I haven't come across rude at all, or trying to insinuate anything about cheating or anything.

I disagree. I think you've made several efforts to convey exactly this.


I am sorry I have come across that way, but I guess I can see what you're saying too. What am I supposed to think, when a unit just shows up on the map? If it's an honest mistake, by Dip or Snoopy, that's fine and I understand. All I'm saying is that I wish someone would explain to me how this could have logically happened. Maybe Dip just accidentally entered an order for Gal, instead of Ukr. But that would mean Snoopy got an order for a unit in Gal, looked at the previous map, saw there was no army there, yet added one? Maybe he did the map when he was tired, and if so, that's fine. I would just like to know how this happened. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and I genuinely do NOT believe that anyone is cheating. I just like to understand how this came about.

I guess Snoopy sort of figures people will read his posts about the game. Not reading posts? Who wouldn't read the posts? It seems a basic thing to do and, seeing how a change from prior to this turn hurts your cause, well "You have to admit, it's a little weird" to be arguing to change something back by saying you did not read a post. I mean, "I still do not know how or why that could have happened (not reading a post). If it (not reading a post) is explained to me logically, and there is a reasonable explanation for it (not reading a post), then I will accept it (not reading a post), and humbly rescind my opinion, with apologies." if I've made a mistake or something of course. I guess not reading posts could be an innocent mistake, but then again claiming to have not read posts... that could be cheating! :shock:


So you just did the same thing, insinuating about cheating. I realize I posted on that thread, but I thought what Snoop was saying he had fixed the north coast thing, not taking it away. At the beginning of the game, Mac extended between Bul and Con. It didn't have a north coast labeled for several turns. But in Spring 1902 the north coast appeared as labeled by Snoop. Since then, the maps have all been like that until just the last two. Looking at the map extensively yesterday, I noticed this and thought it had been a simple mistake by Snoop, so I mentioned it in the topic. The reason why I was confused was that in Spring 1903, Snoopy posted that he'd realized something was fishy with the map, so he'd change it. But the map he posted that topic still had the north coast. That's why I didn't notice the change then. And the next two phases after that came quick, and I just didn't notice it, until this last map.
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Re: 1900 04' Spring

Postby raytheruler » 11 Feb 2009, 22:28

well. i said that i was over it. but... if you insist.

at first i was completely kidding about the cheating. i made myself clear there. but. you have to admit. things do seem QUITE fishy. im not going to say anything, should i enrage snoopy and have him really cheat. (a joke. i think im going to have to do this at every joke i make.) but i think you can guess what i am thinking.

ive chosen to abandon this argument though because i have other things to do. and id like to formally announce that i am leaving the site after this game. (not because of anything. its just boring now) not that that matters....anyway.. lets just finish the game fairly and that will be that.
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Re: 1900 04' Spring

Postby lotr_freak » 11 Feb 2009, 22:39

We'll be sorry to see you leave ray. :cry:
"I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened. So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you."

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Re: 1900 04' Spring

Postby Diplomat » 11 Feb 2009, 23:17

Alright ray, your leaving. Why don't you pm me with you accusations then and we can discuss them privately.
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Re: 1900 04' Spring

Postby raytheruler » 11 Feb 2009, 23:56

not the point. i dont care about this site any more. as in, i could care less whether or not your cheating. i see no point in wasting my breath with you over a dumb argument.

and dont cry lotr. :roll: haha. :lol: ill probably be back eventually. though i couldn't tell you when.
"It was easy to read the message in his entrails. Man was matter, that was Snowden's secret. Drop him out a window and he'll fall. Set fire to him and he'll burn. Bury him and he'll rot, like other kinds of garbage." -Joseph Heller
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Re: 1900 04' Spring

Postby lotr_freak » 12 Feb 2009, 00:06

Well I for one am sorry to see you go ray... I'm sorry if any discussion (however heated) we've had here has caused this kind of fall-out. :(
"I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened. So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you."

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Re: 1900 04' Spring

Postby raytheruler » 12 Feb 2009, 00:09

its really not. ive been saying that this game would be my last for a good month now. even since before it started.
"It was easy to read the message in his entrails. Man was matter, that was Snowden's secret. Drop him out a window and he'll fall. Set fire to him and he'll burn. Bury him and he'll rot, like other kinds of garbage." -Joseph Heller
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Re: 1900 04' Spring

Postby lotr_freak » 12 Feb 2009, 00:35

Okay well I'm glad to know that. Either way, I for one will miss you. :cry: :( :cry:
"I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened. So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you."

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Re: 1900 04' Spring

Postby Diplomat » 12 Feb 2009, 01:51

Empty words and accusations followed you your leaving the site. And cheating accusations from you Ray is truly bold and we both know why don't we.

Guess I can't say 'bye' fast enough then. Enjoy the final experience. ;)
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Re: 1900 04' Spring

Postby raytheruler » 12 Feb 2009, 03:04

ok. ill go public here. i played with my dad on this site...um i think it was two times. EDITED. now you all can banish me. but im pretty sure we all want to see who wins this game.

and ill pull a "rare_shit" on you here and say that if anyone is cheating here, its you.

i appreciate your sincerity lotr. im sorry that the world cant be more like that. :)
"It was easy to read the message in his entrails. Man was matter, that was Snowden's secret. Drop him out a window and he'll fall. Set fire to him and he'll burn. Bury him and he'll rot, like other kinds of garbage." -Joseph Heller
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