1900 03' Fall Results

GM: Snoopymate25. 3-way draw - Diplomat (Austria) / Doctor Benway (Turkey) / Dunam (Italy)

Re: 1900 03' Spring Results

Postby Diplomat » 06 Feb 2009, 19:06

Ray? New orders?
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Re: 1900 03' Spring Results

Postby raytheruler » 06 Feb 2009, 21:28

i find this very upsetting. the fact that diplomat can post late orders and then i cant. whats the difference here? hes the supermod who can bribe you with free premium. I sent them in well before you posted the actual results. a few years ago diplomat did the same thing and there waas no problem. I demand to be treated fairly here. it greatly changes the outcome of the game and the fact that i was a few minutes late because i had a basketball game to play, should not change the game so greatly. if you review the time stamp, it is before you created this thread and is therefore valid. I urge you to reconsider.

oh and. i was completely kidding with the bribe thing. it was a joke. dont take it too seriously. im not saying you are a baised judge, im just laying out the facts here.
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Re: 1900 03' Spring Results

Postby Diplomat » 06 Feb 2009, 23:04

I think my orders were in on time Ray, not late, they were just not seen by Snoopy and he went with a set that was 2 days old. I could be wrong here, as I don't know when yours went in, but it seems even you agree they went in after the deadline. As for accusations of bribery, well, thats a bit beyond the pale and calls into question Snoopy's integrity and mine. If you think he is cheating as the GM then why are you playing? Go have your tantrum elsewhere and don't accuse folks of cheating when you have no idea what you are talking about.
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Re: 1900 03' Spring Results

Postby raytheruler » 06 Feb 2009, 23:40

well aren't you the mature one today. i did say in the other post that the bribe thing was a joke if you actually read it. because i knew everyone would overreact and get all defensive. why Diplomat? do you have a guilty conscience.

i have submitted orders late in world diplomacy, crowded and even this variant. they have been late by only a little and they were overlooked because the actual orders were not processed. im sure that most others had experienced the same situation at least once when playing a forum. shit happens in life. what can you do? i cant spend my life on the computer. they were well before the orders were processed. and this one time should not be an exception to all the other times orders have been submitted a little late.

for the record dilip, and all others interested my moves were to attack tyrolia. I wouldve gotten in because of germany's support and this would be a very different game indeed. i have nothing else to say, as Snoopy hasn't reveiwed my latest arguments (by the way, i wasn't saying you got bribed just to clear things up.)

also, diplomat is fighting me tooth and nail on this becuase he doesn't want my orders to be in. he is in no way an impartial judge unlike snoopy. dont listen to what he has to say. he cant do anything to you. this is between me and snoopy only.

ive said my peace.
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Re: 1900 03' Spring Results

Postby Snoopymate25 » 07 Feb 2009, 00:52

Here's what I'm going by ray.
France Orders 1900
Sent at: 05 Feb 2009, 22:38 EST
From: raytheruler
To: Snoopymate25

You missed the deadline, and I'm not giving grace. Not even to Dip, although he does pay well ;).
As for the whole Diplomat thing, that was not a good night for me, I think everyone changed their orders, and I did catch it until I until it was too late, then it would happen again, so I had to redo the map over and over. And when I thought I was done, I realized that I over looked Dip's orders. Just to clearify. If you think this is unfair, so be it. But I can only go by the time sent in the PM.
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Re: 1900 03' Spring Results

Postby raytheruler » 07 Feb 2009, 01:54

ok. i can deal with that. i just wanted some reason for this. it is QUITE annoying though...

one more question? i think ive sent in late orders before, why have they been procesed?
"It was easy to read the message in his entrails. Man was matter, that was Snowden's secret. Drop him out a window and he'll fall. Set fire to him and he'll burn. Bury him and he'll rot, like other kinds of garbage." -Joseph Heller
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Re: 1900 03' Spring Results

Postby lotr_freak » 07 Feb 2009, 02:19

I am pretty sure I have sent in orders like 20 or 30 minutes past the deadline at least once in this game. I think that we need to consider the "deadline" issue also. Obviously, these forum games are different than the regular ones on this site. In the forum games, we have a time deadline set by the GM, and then we see a new map, posted by that GM. Sometime the maps are not posted for several hours after the official "deadline". I think we all understand that it's okay for the GM to post the map a bit after the deadline, as it may not be convenient to draw up a new map right away. This is perfectly reasonable, and I think this should be extended to the players as well. If you send in a new set of orders before the new map is posted, then is there any reason why they can't be used?

France (raytheruler) and I were communicating right before the deadline, and right up to it. This is because I did not have time the day before to spend very much time on my comp, and therefore our communication was pushed to the last minute. In fact, I was fearful that ray would not get my last message before the new map was posted.... But apparently he did, and then sent in a new set of orders. Another thing we can keep in mind is that even on the regular Diplomacy games on this site, sometimes there are delays with the deadlines, and the time sits at 0 for longer than it should. I understand that things aren't perfect, and everything won't work perfectly every time, but the times that this does happen, it's still possible to submit new orders!! I know, because I've done it. And been saved by it a couple times... Lol. I think this is a situation of that happening, just in a forum game.

I realize I do kind of seem biased, because the new set of orders would help me a bit. But I'd like to say that I would argue the same point for anyone who this happened to, whether my ally or my enemy.

That being said, I will respect the decision of the GM, whatever he decided. He started and organized this game, and therefore it is his call, and his call only. Also, I think that we should strongly avoid any personal attacks on other players, even in jest. If it's only a joke, why say it? Things that serious are better left not said at all. ray and Dip, I hope you two can let that drop now, and patch things up. Remember guys, this is only a game, and the primary purpose is to be having fun. If we're not having fun, why are we playing at all? So let's try be nice to each other, and enjoy ourselves.
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Re: 1900 03' Spring Results

Postby Snoopymate25 » 07 Feb 2009, 03:25

Well thanks for the respect guys. But I really don't give grace on purpose, if I did, it must have been when I was really busy, or was late on the orders and didn't notice. Sometimes I try to grace of about 10-20 minutes, but I have never used it knowingly. But, let this be a lesson to all, be careful on when you negotiate, and know the consequences for doing so.
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Re: 1900 03' Spring Results

Postby lotr_freak » 07 Feb 2009, 03:43

Btw what happened to Macedonia in this turn's map? It seems to have shrunk, and Bul to have grown.... Lol. I wish I had the power to do that!
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Re: 1900 03' Spring Results

Postby Diplomat » 07 Feb 2009, 07:40

A couple of things

1. I think I failed to put a smiley face into my own post which changed the tone a bit I will admit. My bad there. I have no issue with Ray asking for consideration. I'm well aware that the only person who has any real say over 'supermods' is Avalanche and he has had many complaints about MR and I from banned cheaters and we've always passed muster so I'm not worried at all and, Ray, my conscience is clear on this and many other more pressing issues, but thanks for thinking of me... ;)

2. Its up to the GM, but there is a deadline and in this case the deadline was missed. There is also no 'best' way to handle this. MR allows orders until he collects everything, even if it is several hours after the 'deadline'. In 1 case it was almost a day after the deadline before he got it done which caused issues. Drifter though imposed a deadline in World and did not allow my builds because they came in 11 minutes after the deadline in year 1 which caused me problems. In this case Snoopy is saying that there is a deadline, unless he misses it for some reason, and late submissions will not be accepted. I'm fine with that, or whatever he decides, as long as it is consistent. The problem is not when the map comes out, it is when the turn is over. Those are 2 different things. You never know what happens if there is variation. Maybe I stab Italy in Milan and then, 10 minutes after the deadline, thinking the turn is over I send him a message saying 'you should have known this was coming! HAHAHAH' and he gets it, realizes the map is not posted, and quickly changes orders to bounce me. There MUST be a deadline so that everyone knows when to have moves in by and when they are 'locked'. As Snoopy can tell you I usually put in quick orders for a turn and then change them, sometimes several times, as messages fly and intel is gathered. In THIS case it appears that Snoopy is pretty diligent about making sure orders are taken based on when they are submitted and is diligent about trying to get the results out quickly as well.

3. Macedonia was drawn incorrectly on prior maps, there is no NC of Mace. :shock:

4. I need to borrow some patches from someone, so I can patch it up with Ray again, that way I can have a clear conscience next turn... ;)
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