Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

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Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

Postby jhana108 » 22 Apr 2020, 18:30

Hi y'all.

I could be totally off base here, but here is my scenario. Presume as much: I'd like Munich to Enter Kiel with the support of Den and Berlin. Bur will enter Munich with the Support of Ruhr. Kiel will hold and be supported by Hal. For the sake of argument let's say North Sea will hold as well. Shouldn't Munich be successful in entering Kiel? The move calculator does not think so.... Thanks!
Last edited by jhana108 on 22 Apr 2020, 19:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

Postby Charleroi » 22 Apr 2020, 18:36

Is this a scenario in an active game? The forum can't give feedback on current game situations.
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Re: Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

Postby UM85 » 22 Apr 2020, 18:54

Doesn't the map show North Sea cutting Denmark's support?
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Re: Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

Postby jhana108 » 22 Apr 2020, 19:21

Charleroi wrote:Is this a scenario in an active game? The forum can't give feedback on current game situations.


This was a former game during in which I saved all move outcomes as images. I am running through them to see where I can improve.
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Re: Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

Postby jhana108 » 22 Apr 2020, 19:23

UM85 wrote:Doesn't the map show North Sea cutting Denmark's support?


That was the previous move. I think it's best to just abandon considering the map as it might get too confusing -- I suppose just take the original question as a standalone/hypo.
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Re: Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

Postby Charleroi » 22 Apr 2020, 19:38

If your orders are:

Mun->Kiel
Kiel H
HEL S Kiel H
Ber S Mun->Kiel
Den S Mun->Kiel

then yes, Munich's attack on Kiel should succeed. If, however, Denmark or Berlin is attacked, the move would fail (or if either had a misorder, which can often happen when entering support orders).

Perhaps you could copy the order list into the forum - that would be more helpful than the map from the prior turn.
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Re: Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

Postby jhana108 » 22 Apr 2020, 20:04

Charleroi wrote:If your orders are:

Mun->Kiel
Kiel H
HEL S Kiel H
Ber S Mun->Kiel
Den S Mun->Kiel

then yes, Munich's attack on Kiel should succeed. If, however, Denmark or Berlin is attacked, the move would fail (or if either had a misorder, which can often happen when entering support orders).

Perhaps you could copy the order list into the forum - that would be more helpful than the map from the prior turn.


Thanks! The full orders are below. Let's presume Denmark will be attacked from North Sea but North Sea will be taken - thus I presume North Sea's order won't go through? One more rub: Can Edinburgh technically support North Sea? Not for North Sea's offensive into Denmark, but instead to help protect North Sea from an attack.

Mun->Kiel
Kiel H
HEL S Kiel H
Ber S Mun->Kiel
Den S Mun->Kiel
North Sea->Den
Edi S North Sea
Norwegian Sea S Ska->North Sea
Norway S Ska->North Sea
Ska->North Sea
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Re: Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

Postby Charleroi » 22 Apr 2020, 20:15

This is your problem right here:
hanks! The full orders are below. Let's presume Denmark will be attacked from North Sea but North Sea will be taken - thus I presume North Sea's order won't go through?


The fact that North Sea is displaced does not change the effectiveness of North Sea's attack on Denmark. Because NTH attacks Denmark, Denmark's support is broken leaving two (Munich and Berlin) against two (Kiel and HEL).

One more rub: Can Edinburgh technically support North Sea? Not for North Sea's offensive into Denmark, but instead to help protect North Sea from an attack.


Edi cannot support North Sea. North sea has to pick between staying in place and moving. If it stays in place (either with a hold or support order) Edi can support it to stay in place. But if North Sea moves, it can only be supported in the move - it cannot be supported to remain in place if the move is unsuccessful.
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Re: Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

Postby condude1 » 22 Apr 2020, 20:15

jhana108 wrote:Mun->Kiel
Kiel H
HEL S Kiel H
Ber S Mun->Kiel
Den S Mun->Kiel
North Sea->Den
Edi S North Sea
Norwegian Sea S Ska->North Sea
Norway S Ska->North Sea
Ska->North Sea


Ok, so North Sea obviously falls. However, it can still cut Denmark's support before it has to retreat. So now there are only 2 attackers on Kiel, and there are 2 defenders, so Kiel holds. I'm 95% sure that's the interaction! For some reason I think it's different if the unit's destroyed, rather than forced to retreat, but I'm not sure about that.

Edit: Ninjaed!
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Re: Moves that Confuse the Move Calculator?

Postby Charleroi » 22 Apr 2020, 20:18

Here is the relevant rule:

Support is cut if the unit giving support is attacked from
any province except the one where support is being
given. The support is cut whether this attack on the
supporting unit succeeds or not
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