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Super Pastis Scoring System Question

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2019, 00:05
by dib
Hi

I wonder if anyone can help

We are running the super pastis scoring system which just figuring out

http://www.world-diplomacy-database.com ... _scoring=1

In Example A where there is a single leader.
Germany and Italy score 6 bonus points for being within 2 centres.

Is this what should be deducted from the winning bonus.

So if they were within once centre the deduction would be 12. So it should read

- The player with the top score get a bonus of 51 points minus the second highest BONUS point score in the game.

Here it is

Country Nb centres Score
Austia 4 c. 10+8=18
England 0 c. (1906) 6+0=6
France 9 c. 10+18+(51-6)=73
Germany 7 c. 10+14+(6)=30
Italy 7 c. 10+14+(6)=30
Russia 3 c. 10+6=16
Turkey 4 c. 10+8=18
Total 34 c. 191

Dib

Re: Super Pastis Scoring System Question

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2019, 00:22
by Shyvve
That's how I understood the examples to read too, Dib. Deduct the second highest bonus score from the leader(s) bonus score.

Re: Super Pastis Scoring System Question

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2019, 09:35
by Groo
I don't think it should read bonus...maybe I'm wrong.

51 points minus the second highest point score in the game.

That would mean France gets 10+18+(51-30)=49

EDIT: I see that there are examples below now...
Your first example:
Code: Select all
Austia   4 c.   10+8=18
England   0 c. (1906)   6+0=6
France   9 c.   10+18+(51-6)=73
Germany   7 c.   10+14+(6)=30
Italy   7 c.   10+14+(6)=30
Russia   3 c.   10+6=16
Turkey   4 c.   10+8=18
Total   34 c.   191

and this one:
Code: Select all
Austria   5 c.   10+10+(3)/2=21.5
England   8 c.   10+16+(48)/2=50
France   4 c.   10+8=18
Germany   5 c.   10+10+(3)/2=21.5
Italy   3 c.   10+6=16
Russia   1 c.   10+2=12
Turkey   8 c.   10+16+(48)/2=50
Total   34 c.   189


So, you're telling a tie at 11 dots is worse (56 points) than being a leader at 8 points and a runner-up at 7 points. (that would be 10+16+(51-12)=65 That's crap :P

Edit 2:
To prove my point, tie at 17 (so basically a duo) is 68 points, and being first at 9 like in example nr 1 above (which might as well end in a 6-way draw) is 73. I think something is wrong there...

Re: Super Pastis Scoring System Question

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2019, 20:20
by dib
Thanks Shy

***

But by your logic Groo

France gets less for winning in example A 49 points

Than England and Turkey do for getting for drawing 50 points

***
As to the second point
The scoring system may reward a win more than a tie and this may be unfair but I just want to know what it is saying.

***

Anyone else have a view on what it is actually saying?

Re: Super Pastis Scoring System Question

PostPosted: 18 Sep 2019, 15:20
by Groo
dib wrote:But by your logic Groo

France gets less for winning in example A 49 points

Than England and Turkey do for getting for drawing 50 points

***
As to the second point
The scoring system may reward a win more than a tie and this may be unfair but I just want to know what it is saying.

***

Yeah, fair point. I guess super pastis heavily rewards the board leader, no matter on how many dots. That might be "unfair" in some cases, but I think I can understand why it is used in high-level tournaments with time (game year) limit.

Re: Super Pastis Scoring System Question

PostPosted: 23 Sep 2019, 04:39
by Jensen
The way I interpret the intent of the scoring system is that firstly there is a base score calculated purely on total sc count and secondly there is a bonus score calculated solely on relative position to the board leader(s). Hence, the board leader's bonus should be 51 - second place getter's bonus. If you used the second place getters base score as well, then total sc count would affect bonus which I do not believe is the intent.

For an illustrative example of how the alternative would not work, look at a 17-16-1 result. Player on 16 scs gets 54 points (12 point bonus) in total so the board leader's bonus would be -3 which is more of a penalty than a bonus. They would then be motivated to tie rather than lead. Using my interpretation, the board leader's bonus would be 39. This is the same bonus as a 13-12-9 result because the relative difference in SC count is the same.

Furthermore, based on the way the bonuses are described, I interpret the intent to be that outright win and win by a greater margin is rewarded over a tie. Hence a result were 8 centres beating 7 centres gets a higher bonus than 16-16 tie is completely consistent with this philosophy. Player on 8 is rewarded for keeping their nose in front of the player with 7 which might be quite difficult when there are 19 other scs up for grabs. Meanwhile the players drawn on 16 have elimated at least 3 opponents and still counted muster an outright lead so perhaps are duly penalised by having to share the bonus.