When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

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When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

Postby socratease » 10 Feb 2014, 23:44

Suppose a draw is proposed in Fall 1906, and all but one player accepts. The proposal has "expires Fall 1907" written in Statistics. In the following Spring, that player's last unit and center are taken.

Assuming no vote by said player, does the draw go into effect? Or does the game proceed to Spring Retreat (if any) or to Fall 1907?

More directly put, when is a player considered "eliminated" by the adjudication software, as soon as all units and centers are gone, or (like a solo win) only after Fall Retreat?
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Re: When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

Postby jaelis » 11 Feb 2014, 00:01

I'm quite sure that a player is eliminated at the end of a turn when they are left with no units and no centers. It doesn't have to be a fall turn.

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Edit: While technically correct, there is of course no way for a player to lose a center after a spring turn, and there's no way to start a spring turn without any centers. So really you can only be eliminated after a fall turn.
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Re: When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

Postby socratease » 11 Feb 2014, 00:09

jaelis wrote:I'm quite sure that a player is eliminated at the end of a turn when they are left with no units and no centers. It doesn't have to be a fall turn.


Thanks for clearing up that half [Edit, changed below]. So if the draw proposal expires in Spring, and the player is eliminated in Spring, does that put the draw into effect? Or is the lack of a 'yea' vote processed before the player's elimination removes the need for his vote?
Last edited by socratease on 11 Feb 2014, 20:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

Postby rhyker » 11 Feb 2014, 00:12

I've had a game where my last unit was destroyed and the supply center occupied in the Spring, but I had to wait until the Fall Build phase to be "eliminated". That is, allowed to "Ignore" the game in the statistics tab. I would think, until that happens, I could still vote on a Draw. It's possible that the player who destroyed my unit and took my supply center will move off of it. Because I maintain ownership of the Supply Center, i would get a build, and therefore not be "eliminated." Therefore, I would think your allowed to participate until your officially eliminated in the build phase.
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Re: When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

Postby norlight » 11 Feb 2014, 00:15

I am pretty much sure that it is impossible to eliminate anyone in Spring, because SCs change ownership only during Fall Build.
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Re: When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

Postby jaelis » 11 Feb 2014, 00:27

norlight wrote:I am pretty much sure that it is impossible to eliminate anyone in Spring, because SCs change ownership only during Fall Build.

This is a pretty compelling point.

I refuse to admit that I was wrong, since if you did lose your last SC in the spring, then you would be eliminated. So there!
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Re: When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

Postby socratease » 11 Feb 2014, 00:34

norlight wrote:I am pretty much sure that it is impossible to eliminate anyone in Spring, because SCs change ownership only during Fall Build.


Yep, that's consistent. Also thanks to ryker for relating the hands-on experience regarding the "ignore" v. "surrender" button.

Pretty clearly, the player is NOT considered "de jure" eliminated in Spring even if he is "de facto" toast (assuming the last SC is NOT a home center).

So the draw expires, all settled.
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Re: When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

Postby Petunia » 11 Feb 2014, 07:59

jaelis wrote:I'm quite sure that a player is eliminated at the end of a turn when they are left with no units and no centers. It doesn't have to be a fall turn.

Yeah I mean this is technically correct but extremely misleading. A player is eliminated when they are left with no units and no centers, which can only happen in a Build phase.
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Re: When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

Postby WHSeward » 11 Feb 2014, 20:16

First, somebody should ask Dipsy which powers the code includes in the draw votes because that is what matters. I thought I remembered reading that somewhere in the forum but now I can't find it. I will post this and then go look some more and edit/re-post this if I find it.

Petunia wrote:
jaelis wrote:I'm quite sure that a player is eliminated at the end of a turn when they are left with no units and no centers. It doesn't have to be a fall turn.

Yeah I mean this is technically correct but extremely misleading. A player is eliminated when they are left with no units and no centers, which can only happen in a Build phase.

Actually, I don't think either of those is correct.

First, we say we use the 2000 edition of the rule book, so that is what I am relying on. That version of the rules is silent on the question in the OP - when is a player eliminated. However it is explicit about which players are included in a draw and I would make the short leap that only those players included in the draw are entitled to vote in the draw. The rule book says (emphasis added):
Diplomacy 4th Edition Rulebook wrote:However, players can end the game by agreement before a winner is determined. In this case, all players who still have pieces on the board share equally in a draw.


It is entirely possible for a power to have centers and yet no pieces on the board. This status can last indefinitely in the case where the centers are non-home SCs. The "eliminated" power continues to hold the centers, but since it cannot build, it can never have another piece on the board.

A strict reading of this rule would say a power could be excluded from a draw in the Spring when its last piece was destroyed, but be eligible for the draw again after Fall builds if it still had a home SC. That seems an absurd result, so I'd bet we coded something a bit different than that.
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Re: When is an "eliminated" player removed from Draw voting?

Postby Petunia » 11 Feb 2014, 20:47

Good point on the rules.

On Playdiplomacy.com, a Power is eliminated following the turn in which they are reduced to 0 supply centers owned.
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