Draw expiration timing

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Draw expiration timing

Postby joetreat » 25 May 2011, 17:19

What is the sequence of events with respect to a draw proposal that expires in a Fall turn? Specifically, does the expiration occur before or after the resolution of the build phase and any resulting disbandment of forces? If you have one last player that hasn't accepted the draw proposal and all his centers are taken and his remaining forces disbanded in the build phase, is the game over? Or did the draw expire before his forces were disbanded?
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Re: Draw expiration timing

Postby diplomat42 » 25 May 2011, 23:32

I believe that it happens when he equals 0 units, 0 centers. That's at either the beginning or end of the build phase, depending on if he has a unit left or not.
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Re: Draw expiration timing

Postby super_dipsy » 26 May 2011, 07:36

joetreat wrote:What is the sequence of events with respect to a draw proposal that expires in a Fall turn? Specifically, does the expiration occur before or after the resolution of the build phase and any resulting disbandment of forces? If you have one last player that hasn't accepted the draw proposal and all his centers are taken and his remaining forces disbanded in the build phase, is the game over? Or did the draw expire before his forces were disbanded?


It is a little bit complicated. It depends whether the offer was in the Fall Orders, Fall Retreats or Fall Build phase. The basic rule of thumb is that any draww offer made in a Retreat or Build phase behaves as if it was made in the following order phase. So a draw proposal made in Fall Retreat or Fall Build of Fall 1905 will actually be processsed as if it had been made in Spring 06 Orders phase in terms of expiry. Similarly one made in Spring Retreat or Spring Build of 1905 will be treated in expiry terms as if it was made in the Fall 1905 Orders phase.

So, since I THINK your question was actually about an offer made in a Fall Orders phase (let us say Fall 1905), then if a player is eliminated (reduced to 0 units and 0 centres) in the Fall 1905 Build phase then they are removed from the order check list and if everyone else has accepted then the draw completes at that point. But if the player is eliminated in the Fall 1906 phase, the draw offer will have expired BEFORE the player is eliminated and therefore the draw will not be enacted - a new draw offer will be required.

If I have not answered what you wanted to know, then feel free to come back. It was a bit difficult to interpret because 'in a Fall turn' is not precise enough :)
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Re: Draw expiration timing

Postby diplomat42 » 26 May 2011, 13:30

super_dipsy wrote:Spring Build


Uhhh
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Re: Draw expiration timing

Postby joetreat » 26 May 2011, 16:49

Your post contained a wealth of information! Thank you. To be specific, then, this is the information from the Statistics window:

Draw proposal for: AUSTRIA, ENGLAND, TURKEY Proposed by: AUSTRIA
(Fall 1910 Build)
Draw expires on: Fall 1911

I had only focused on the expiration and did not think that when the draw was proposed was important. The current phase is Fall 1911 Orders and the only player not to have accepted the draw proposal has just lost their last center and has retreated their last unit.

If we force his last unit to disband, then clearly he will have no centers and no units at the very start of the Build phase, and so I think the game would be over. But that's not the interesting case. If we don't do that and he still has the one unit, then, if I understand you correctly, the game will still be over because his last unit will be disbanded with the resolution of the Build phase, just before the draw is considered to have expired.

All, of course, on the assumption that he does not explicitly reject the draw proposal.
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Re: Draw expiration timing

Postby super_dipsy » 26 May 2011, 17:47

diplomat42 wrote:
super_dipsy wrote:Spring Build


Uhhh

Ah - sorry. I forgot - Spring Builds are only available to Admins, I forgot. :oops:
joetreat wrote:If we force his last unit to disband, then clearly he will have no centers and no units at the very start of the Build phase, and so I think the game would be over.

Nope.
super_dipsy wrote: But if the player is eliminated in the Fall 1906 phase, the draw offer will have expired BEFORE the player is eliminated and therefore the draw will not be enacted - a new draw offer will be required.

In your case, the offer was made Fall 1910. So the processing in Fall 1911 Build is
1. Draw offer expires
2. Player marked as eliminated because he has no centres/units
3. Therefore new offer required, because the old one has expired
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Re: Draw expiration timing

Postby diplomat42 » 26 May 2011, 18:48

super_dipsy wrote:Ah - sorry. I forgot - Spring Builds are only available to Admins, I forgot. :oops:


Post of the day.
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Re: Draw expiration timing

Postby matty8883 » 01 Dec 2013, 03:26

I still feel like I'm missing something from this old thread. If a draw says that it expires on Fall 1907; does that include fall retreat and build? Or only the fall orders?
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