Comments or Questions on the Classicists

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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby hsiale » 24 Jul 2020, 12:39

I am not asking for game advice. I am asking how do Classicists decide if a surrender was justified or not, as such words appear in admission criteria but I could not find them explained anywhere.

As for "why should this not happen" - I think a player who can easily take a solo win but declines it and prolongs the game to setup a draw with other player(s) because they are friends/family outside of the game is definitely against the spirit of the game and wastes time of everyone else still there. It is as good as entering a game using multiple accounts. That's why I ask if leaving them to move units around as long as they enjoy it is going to worsen my reliability record for Classicist membership purposes or not.
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby Jack007 » 24 Jul 2020, 13:28

Okay, I understand, what you mean.

But I say there's no such thing like justified or unjustified surrender. There is only surrender.

What you imply is, that if the game gets boring, a surrender might be "justified". To that I answer that boredom in a game depends whether YOU have given up to take the challenge or not. That's the reason why I tried to motivate you to hold out.

And concerning "the spirit" of the game, I answer that everything that goes IS in the spirit of the game, no matter whether you like it or not. Don't forget that Diplomacy is an ugly game for nice guys, or was it the other way around?

So, provoking weariness among the others may be a strategy, and namely a legitimate one. Because it's the success that justifies a strategy.

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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby Caladrius » 24 Jul 2020, 16:12

Hi Hsiale

I assume the game in question is 178705 Family Friendly, which as its name implies is a Friends game.

The Classicists only take NMRs and surrenders in Rank and No Rank games into account so purely on that basis a surrender in a Friends game would not affect your continuing membership of the group.

However surrendering a game just because it's not going how you want is never a good idea and the two players seemingly playing for a 17/17 are doing nothing wrong if that is the case.

Quitting now would also go against the principle of sticking with the game until the bitter end and more importantly won't help you build a reputation as a reliable player.

So I would strongly urge you to continue playing to a finish and as Jack007 says try to find something positive you can do about the situation, even if that's sometimes difficult to achieve.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.


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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby hsiale » 24 Jul 2020, 17:14

Jack007 wrote:But I say there's no such thing like justified or unjustified surrender. There is only surrender.

You say so. On the other hand, the criteria to become Bronze level Classicists member say:
90% consistency
Complete 5 games
No unjustified surrenders in past 5 games.
No sanction from the site admin for site rule violation within the last 2 months.

So, at least according to whoever set those rules, there must be such thing. I am trying to find out what it is.
Jack007 wrote:What you imply is, that if the game gets boring, a surrender might be "justified".

Not when the game gets boring, but when other players are attempting things which, according to viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58715 are against the site rules in norank and rank games. (Yes, I know this is a friends game so they are allowed to do this)
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby Caladrius » 25 Jul 2020, 17:33

For Classicist purposes we look at each case on its merits but generally 'justified' surrender reasons to avoid penalty would have to involve ALL of:

Something serious or urgent outside of the game making it too difficult to continue

Something that cannot be resolved by a few days game pause
 
Something that was unforeseeable when you joined the game

The moderators being notified with brief details of what has happened as soon as reasonably possible
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby hsiale » 05 Aug 2020, 08:18

After unsuccessfully trying to get a Classicist game going (a week waiting, 1 person possibly interested but not completely happy about exact game settings), I have a question: are there people here interested at all in (non-Premium) Classicist games? If yes, what kind of settings work for you?
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby ColonelApricot » 05 Aug 2020, 11:46

You could run a poll listing the various options.

Also there are plenty of players that should be willing to donate a premium credit to you to play a premium - only game.
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby hsiale » 05 Aug 2020, 22:23

ColonelApricot wrote:You could run a poll listing the various options.

Also there are plenty of players that should be willing to donate a premium credit to you to play a premium - only game.

I think the poll would likely have more options than people answering ;)

Money is not a problem for me with regards to premium, but the number of games I completed is still very low and I feel I have a lot to learn in the standard game before exploring variants.
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Re: Comments or Questions on the Classicists

Postby ColonelApricot » 06 Aug 2020, 04:40

If you seek higher quality game you could choose an "ambassadors only" game, but you need to be an ambassador yourself of course.
Thats not hard, just start and complete 3 consecutive games without surrendering.
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