How to reduce Mexico's power (NO LONGER NEESSARY!)

10-player variant. Created by Macario Reyes. Brought to the site by QueenOfHearts.

How to reduce Mexico's power (NO LONGER NEESSARY!)

Postby Pedros » 10 Oct 2011, 19:34

In the AARs to Game 2, I suggested that Mexico starts with a huge advantage - no immediate enemies, and quite a lot of neutral SCs waiting to be grabbed. Others seemed to agree.

It's a pity, because otherwise it's a very good map. diplomat42 (in a note to the Spring 1901 turn) wrote that

So...as I said I'm not a mapmaker, but I think a possible solution to Mexico's power is a Central American power.

and theangrycastle replied:-

If it can be done without weakening Mexico, Spain, or Columbia too much


This could certainly reduce Mexico's advantage considerably, but it would give the already beleagured powers in the Caribbean area another problem to deal with.

Is that the answer?
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
User avatar
Pedros
 
Posts: 12465
Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 12:59
Location: Somewhere full of gorse and brambles, West Cornwall
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1085)
All-game rating: (1314)
Timezone: GMT

Re: How to reduce Mexico's power

Postby Malevolence » 10 Oct 2011, 19:36

simple- add in a CA power but ensure the power has no fleets on the caribbean ocean side.

this way he weakens mexico but the shattered caribbean stays intact more or less.
Creator of 1939, Superpowers, Future of the World, Fate of the World, Fantasy CYOC, Outbreak, History of the World, Italian Renaissance Diplomacy, 21st Century Diplomacy, Inheritors
User avatar
Malevolence
 
Posts: 7585
Joined: 20 May 2011, 22:01
Location: Washington, DC
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (1049)
All-game rating: (1031)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: How to reduce Mexico's power (War in the Americas)

Postby diplomat42 » 10 Oct 2011, 19:48

@Malevolence: Great idea. Maybe a "Pacific Islands" player or a Native American player whose only option is really to attack Mexico (and a Native American would be at least somewhat accurate...
Glorious Nation of the Himalaya et.al in CYOC.
Classicist, Whippersnapper.

Generation 32 (The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.)

JOIN CITY-STATES AND ZOMBIES!
IT WILL BE OFF THE CHAIN
diplomat42
 
Posts: 10504
Joined: 21 Nov 2010, 19:32
Location: Swagland
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (1140)
All-game rating: (1289)
Timezone: GMT-6

Re: How to reduce Mexico's power (War in the Americas)

Postby Malevolence » 10 Oct 2011, 19:56

try aztecs, or something of the like who did really live in that area.

but yeah, having their only fleet be on the pacific side, and the other units be armies would force mexico to defend his land alot more.
Creator of 1939, Superpowers, Future of the World, Fate of the World, Fantasy CYOC, Outbreak, History of the World, Italian Renaissance Diplomacy, 21st Century Diplomacy, Inheritors
User avatar
Malevolence
 
Posts: 7585
Joined: 20 May 2011, 22:01
Location: Washington, DC
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (1049)
All-game rating: (1031)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: How to reduce Mexico's power (War in the Americas)

Postby AardvarkArmy » 10 Oct 2011, 20:06

Hmmm... perhaps bidding on a country with a good starting position is not a bad plan?

While I acknowledge that I had an easy path, that was only partially due to the inherent qualities of the map.

Remember, Mexico was the ONLY country to get only one build in the first year. If USA had not NMR'd and if Mexico's neighbors had aligned to block her, this game would have had a very different outcome...

Hence, I am of the opinion that adding an entirely new opponent would be overkill, and would then make Mexico too weak.

I suggest either 1) tinkering with the supply center distribution (e.g., eliminate hawaii?) or move one of Mexico's neighbors closer (e.g., New Orleans as a starting center for USA)
SOLOS
ICE&FIRE.1-Martell/EXCALIBUR.1-Angles/EXCALIBUR.2-Scots/EMERALD-Sno/MOD.4-Italy/SENGOKU.1-OdaNobu/S.AMERICA.1-Peru

DRAWS
1930-China/BattleIsleA-Winterfell/S&S-Turkey/WORLD INFL-Venezuela/LECRAE-Dublin/WWIV.2-Cali/IMPERIAL1861.1-Trky/YNGSTWN.1-Grmny/AMERICAS.2-Mex/AFRICAN.2-S.Arabia
User avatar
AardvarkArmy
Premium Member
 
Posts: 2248
Joined: 27 Feb 2009, 04:37
Location: Oakland, California, USA (San Francisco Bay Area)
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1050
All-game rating: 1458
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: How to reduce Mexico's power (War in the Americas)

Postby rick.leeds » 10 Oct 2011, 21:03

Looking at the map, one of Mexico's advantages is that it is comparatively isolated. Yes, Brazil is, too, but Brazil faces a large number of competitors. I'd look to make Trin neutral, cut Honduras off from the Pacific, take Nic's SC and place it in Hon and make Hon a British starting SC. That may mean shifting Trin's SC somewhere further away from South America.
World Diplomacy Forum.
Online Resources editor at the Diplomatic Pouch.
Don't let the stepladder get you. Watch where you're stepping. ANY step could be a doozy.
User avatar
rick.leeds
 
Posts: 8360
Joined: 11 Jan 2009, 04:40
Location: Wherever I am, I'm scratching my head.
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (1158)
All-game rating: (1070)
Timezone: GMT

Re: How to reduce Mexico's power (War in the Americas)

Postby musashisamurai » 10 Oct 2011, 21:49

I wold say eliminate a SC in Central America or move on of Mexic's to California (possibly a fleet)
¸,,¸_____}\,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,...,,,,,,
`’’´¯¯¯¯¯}/’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’¨¨¨¯
The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth-it is the truth which conceals that there is none. The simulacrum is true.
musashisamurai
 
Posts: 16512
Joined: 16 Dec 2010, 21:54
Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: How to reduce Mexico's power (War in the Americas)

Postby theangrycastle » 18 Oct 2011, 08:27

I think doing something that would give someone else a reason to compete with Mexico early on would be a good idea. Maybe give spain a center in Central America?
User avatar
theangrycastle
 
Posts: 243
Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 06:38
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (949)
All-game rating: (951)
Timezone: GMT-8

Nicaragua?

Postby Pedros » 09 Jan 2013, 18:57

This thread has been dormant for a couple of years, but when War in the Americas was played here (twice) it was extremely popular. But it suffers from a big balance problem - Mexico has too much space to expand and was dominant in both games; and the central powers - especially Spain, in the Caribbean - were very weak.

The starting map is reproduced below (although in the original, California is an additional supply centre, which would actually strengthen Mexico's position even further!) If rick.leeds' suggestion were to be adopted - giving Spain a base on the mainland - Nicaragua would be the obvious place. It would provide immediate competition for Mexico at the start, give Spain both more power and more options, and present new opportunities for alliances. The possible downside is further weakening the northern states in South America - Colombia and Venezuela - and the game would need to be tested in a form like this. But comments from the map experts would be welcome.

Image
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
User avatar
Pedros
 
Posts: 12465
Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 12:59
Location: Somewhere full of gorse and brambles, West Cornwall
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1085)
All-game rating: (1314)
Timezone: GMT

Re: How to reduce Mexico's power (War in the Americas)

Postby Pedros » 12 Jan 2013, 06:06

I've taken a good look at Mexico's position. It seems to me that Mex isn't especially blessed by available neutral supply centres (although California and Alaska are almost certain gains in years 2 and 3). The real problem is lack of competition. Rick commented that Brazil is isolated also. Quite apart from the fact that that isn't much consolation to the other South American nations (slogging it out amongst themselves at close quarters and with very limited opportunities) and also to USA/UK in Canada, Brazil isn't as isolated as Mexico. Granted USA can take Texas immediately (although holding it in the Fall isn't guaranteed), USA seems to have its work cut out to hold off Canadian advances - in game 2 USA felt the need to withdraw completely from Texas New Orleans after year one.

There was one other big advantage given to Mexico in these two games which may have made a very big difference: both were played "Build Anywhere". This gives a huge aedvantage to the player growing and going forward, and on a map as large as this one may be critical. I think it will be worth playing this game again as Home Builds Only.
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
User avatar
Pedros
 
Posts: 12465
Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 12:59
Location: Somewhere full of gorse and brambles, West Cornwall
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1085)
All-game rating: (1314)
Timezone: GMT

Next

Return to War in the Americas [8 Games] {Maps lost for 2}

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest